Motivations?

[Targan]

Originally Posted by copeab

I would tend to think that most soldiers in 2000 are not career professionals, who I think would have mostly killed by then, but drafted civilians after the start of the war.

Originally Posted by Mahatatain

While I agree with your logic I don't think that this is how the character generation rules tend to work. Most players seem to generate PCs who are one of the few remaining career soldiers.

I see what both of you are saying and I agree that using the standard T2K rules most PCs seem to be career soldiers. At the start of my last campaign most PCs were career soldiers including SF types but as the campaign progressed several players chose to generate draftees (mainly to give themselves a challenge and also to create poignant back stories). I also deliberately inserted a number of prominent major NPCs who were draftees and who were valued members of the party.

The char gen rules we were using were able to create extremely rich and detailed character backstories (year by year char gen after high school, family backgrounds, siblings, even major friends and enemies and other interesting tid bits). Because of this it wasn't necessarily a disadvantage to play a draftee/start of the war civilian who volunteered.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by Targan

I see what both of you are saying and I agree that using the standard T2K rules most PCs seem to be career soldiers.

An average PC isn't an average person and, by extension, an average military PC isn't an average member of the military.

It is true that T2K skimps a bit on civilian careers (unlike, say, Dark Conspiracy, which has several more) and goes into great detail in military careers (again unlike DC, which has simplified military options). However, a lot of this depends on the theme of the campaign. If it's "rebuild the world" then ex-civilians become rather important, for example. Also, some civilian careers are more useful than others, like police vs factory worker.

[HorseSoldier]

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While I agree with your logic I don't think that this is how the character generation rules tend to work. Most players seem to generate PCs who are one of the few remaining career soldiers.

If you use the ver 1.0 rules this isn't the case because it's not up to the players. If you use the 2.x character generation rules are flawed in any number of ways, just one of which is it encourages your entire party to as close to military retirement age as they can get to max out their skill sets on lists of skills that are not in any way realistic for what professional officers or NCOs actually learn to do.

Realistically for professional soldiers (assuming a start point between, say, 18-22), career middle age is probably around 30, before wear and tear on the body starts to take its toll on one hand and responsibilities as an NCO or officer start to be more and more about administrative and bureaucratic skills and less and less on honing actual combat/fieldcraft/etc skills. I always liked how ver 1.0 built in trade offs during character generation, and looking back at the system from my late 30s (with a bad knee, a back that aches when in full kit, and that general lack of bounce back I had when I was 20 years younger) I think it's a system that suggests reality. For larger than life campaigns you can always just fudge the MOS rolls with ver 1.0 if you want, whereas 2.x requires more creative surgery to avoid everyone generating five term military veterans.

[headquarters]

Once upon a time in the early 1990s we discussed the limitations of our ADnD campaigns -we had dabbled in Warhammer,Top Secret,Bushido,Paranoia,CallofChutulu etc .I saw an ad for T2K 2nd ed in I believe it was Dragon Magazine.
It was promptly ordered ( I dont recall if we went dutch ,but I think I paid for it ) .
Our first session was a shocker- a PC got himself killed!!!Players were behaving badly !Machineguns were bursting left and right non stop.
The first few years of T2K-ing saw intense infighting with deadly scraps between player chars over small things - as you guys discuss-tempers grew short .PCs dropped like flies to eachothers bullets and buckshot.One time 4 out of 5 PCs wacked eachother when the mexican standoff they were in with MK19s and LAW 80s went wrong.

Those highschool years gaming was about getting an interesting PC with really good stats and the best guns possible.A session was considered a success if there was a huge gunfight.

Over the years other elements crept in -such as the need for a plot and ambience that was skillfully done .The"old us vs them over the treasure "grew old and oposing interests were added to the PCs backstories to make it interesting.The game became more orientated towards creating a rich gaming experience-gunfights and rewards didnt cut it anymore.

As we grew steadily more mature ( in the sense that grown men playing RPGs are ) a hankering for some more serious themes arised and the questions risen from the topic title -what could possibly motivate after WWIII?

Our group found our answer and wrestled with that for the last 5 years of our FtF - power.

All of them set out to build the brave new world from the ashes of the old one.Police states,religious fanatics,feudal oppression,slavery and racism became the result .As well as a fair bit of inter family crime like spouse- murders,father/son civil wars,incarcerations,violence ,threaths etc .

I would like to think the group has come almost full circle in regards to motivation.Our gaming has certainly done so-from just a few hastily scribbled maps and some dice to bigger set ups with computers,laserpointers ,maps that have taken ages to draw,cast miniatures etc .From where its all about your PC and what he carries in his backpack to where the PCs run entire factions with XL sheets and micromanaging.

Next FtF in 20 days.Cant wait to see where it takes us in game.

I think the topic has many answers - some may act as they do out of habit ,not wanting to realize that the old world is gone,some out of self interest some out of altruism.The list goes on.

Good thread !

[Targan]

Originally Posted by headquarters

One time 4 out of 5 PCs wacked eachother when the mexican standoff they were in with MK19s and LAW 80s went wrong.

Awesome! I LOL'd.

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by Targan

Awesome! I LOL'd.

Yeah,I laugh now .It wasnt all that fun at the time though- hours of work in prepping a session all went up in smoke so to speak.But in hindsight I still chuckle over it .


The 5th character involved wasnt killed outright.His character was brand new and fully kitted out with good stats and scores etc - player was not in attendance thus I grew soft for a little while .

-so having ruled that he was sitting in the back of the van I doled out the appropriate damage from the barrage of MK19 HEDP rounds and consequent major damage results to vehicle ,leaving him with 3d degree burns,shrapnel wounds and an eye out.

next session had a shocking start for that guy you might say - he got handed his new PC that he had dutyfully rolled up in minute detail -only to get a mangled semi corpse .he managed to drag his scarred and wounded and now nearly naked character out onto a road where he was found by the newly formed party of new characters-and immediatly taken captive.

yes,my crew has had several golden moments -another one was the epic figth to the death between two players over-get this -whose dog should get to ride in the front seat of their hummer.Angry words and threaths escalated into a brief struggle with both guys diving out the doors armed with sidearms.Their dogs were ofcourse merrily scrapping around their feet .
They played tag around the oustide of the hummer with handguns for a few phases until one of them got hold of a 10 gage Itacha roadblocker shotgun from the gun rack and gunned down the other PC with a lucky quickshot.

He promptly bashed the unlucky characters brains out after having shot him with the shotgun and then dispatched his dog or drove him of with gun fire .( I dont recall properly ).

I could go on ,but I will limit myself to mention the last round of infighting -General Pains character had offed one of the other PCs in a previous season of sessions.This players new character ( the killed PCs mother ingame actually) eventually uncovered the truth and in the middle of a firefight in a bunker against enemy troops - started a lethal scrap using handguns with poisoned bullets and receving blows with rifle butts and shotgun loads in kind before the vengeful mother drew termite grenades and succeeded in setting both player characters and one NPC on fire killing all of them.