US Army Enlisted Ranks & Length of Service

[Dog 6]

"Is a recruit in basic training an E-1 and they become an E-2 after they have passed basic training?"

yes

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by Dog 6

"Is a recruit in basic training an E-1 and they become an E-2 after they have passed basic training?"

yes

This is not automatic in the Army. You'll get E-1 PVTs arriving to their units still E-1 quite frequently. Usually only the guys that have long AITs show up to their units with E-2 in hand if they didn't get some kind of early promotion through other means.

Keep in mind, the Army has many ways to get promotions before ever leaving home for Basic Training. If you get two buddies to enlist, you get E2 (that's what I did). If you were an Eagle Scout or were in Civil Air Patrol and took the Eddie Rickenbacker test (and passed it) you get E3. If you have a Bachelor's Degree but don't want to be an officer, you get automatic E4. If you were prior service, you'll usually go down one rank from your last pay grade in your first service. I'm sure there are some things I'm missing. But this gives you a means of justifying lots of different ranks between E-1 and E-4.

[Mahatatain]

Thanks for the info - all very interesting.

What this means (in terms of T2k) though is that if I have an NPC who's been involved in the NATO drive into Poland in the year 2000 and isn't a completely fresh recruit then they are likely to have gained promotion to PFC by that time? Does that make sense?

Thanks.

[jester]

And lets not forget special promotions, meritorious promotions and through review boards.

And of course as an old freind says,

"PFC second award." Some older hands could be to set in their ways and be on their second or even third award as a PFCs or Pvt.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by jester

"PFC second award." Some older hands could be to set in their ways and be on their second or even third award as a PFCs or Pvt.

Or a guy I knew at Ft. Stewart who had gotten busted down to E-1 so many times that he sewed blank patches on his collar (at the time, US Army rank was worn on the collar).

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by jester

And lets not forget special promotions, meritorious promotions and through review boards.

These are more a thing of the past in the Army. The brigade I'm going to when I leave here just promoted 8 soldiers through "battlefield promotions."

It was a few receiving E-4s, 2 E-5s, and an E-5 to E-6. It looked more like a publicity stunt than anything else.

Brevet ranks, battlefield commissions, all of that stuff...they're really not part of the Army. I've never seen any brevets and I've only heard of one battlefield commission being given (and that was to a Delta operator that wound up in my Career Course class).

Early promotions have special conditions, but even those are standardized to a bureaucratic extent that take the "special" out of the special conditions. Things like "18 months time-in-grade, waiverable to [8/10/12/whatever] months."

However, like I said, I know that one dude...so it does still happen from time to time. As a GM, I don't think I'd allow it unless the player did a lot of work on his background and I definitely wouldn't use it for an NPC, even one that was meant to stand out. That seems like something that should definitely be reserved for players (but like I said, who've done a lot of work on their background).

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by Mahatatain

Thanks for the info - all very interesting.

What this means (in terms of T2k) though is that if I have an NPC who's been involved in the NATO drive into Poland in the year 2000 and isn't a completely fresh recruit then they are likely to have gained promotion to PFC by that time? Does that make sense?

Thanks.

For reference, in Iraq, one of my Corporals (E-4) was promoted to Sergeant and Staff Sergeant in a fifteen month period.

In a war like WWIII? He could have made Colonel, I'm sure. So to be promoted just to PFC is hard to fathom in my opinion, but definitely plausible.

[HorseSoldier]

Post-nuke the bureaucratic niceties will tend to be mostly out the window and I would think that in most units the promotion process would become decidedly irregular by modern standards.

Battlefield commissions might make a strong comeback. If not, I think you'd see dividional or corps OCS courses set up to put an official blessing on the de facto reality. Without a steady supply of replacement personnel from CONUS, which doesn't exist circa 2000, the US military in Europe would have to look inward for any replacement junior officers anyway. They'll either end up commissioning proven NCOs, or they'll have proven NCOs doing officer's jobs without the benefit of the rank (which can work in a pinch for a platoon leader, but much higher up the food chain and it gets problematic).

For enlisted promotions, I suspect by 2000 it just boils down to the unit commander and some key subordinates having a huddle and deciding who they want to advance to fill an NCO leadership position. Issues like points, time in service, and actually being MOS qualified for the job by 2000 are going to take a backseat to demonstrated ability to deal with the requirements of soldiering in the year 2000.

At the same time, I could also see a lot of stagnation for others in the system. By Y2K, the US military "up or out" system is going to be a thing of the past, and some guys may end up being career privates, particularly if they have behavior issues off duty/in garrison and such.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

Post-nuke the bureaucratic niceties will tend to be mostly out the window and I would think that in most units the promotion process would become decidedly irregular by modern standards.

Battlefield commissions might make a strong comeback. If not, I think you'd see dividional or corps OCS courses set up to put an official blessing on the de facto reality. Without a steady supply of replacement personnel from CONUS, which doesn't exist circa 2000, the US military in Europe would have to look inward for any replacement junior officers anyway. They'll either end up commissioning proven NCOs, or they'll have proven NCOs doing officer's jobs without the benefit of the rank (which can work in a pinch for a platoon leader, but much higher up the food chain and it gets problematic).

For enlisted promotions, I suspect by 2000 it just boils down to the unit commander and some key subordinates having a huddle and deciding who they want to advance to fill an NCO leadership position. Issues like points, time in service, and actually being MOS qualified for the job by 2000 are going to take a backseat to demonstrated ability to deal with the requirements of soldiering in the year 2000.

At the same time, I could also see a lot of stagnation for others in the system. By Y2K, the US military "up or out" system is going to be a thing of the past, and some guys may end up being career privates, particularly if they have behavior issues off duty/in garrison and such.

I agree with everything here. Later in the war, I think the army would make increasing use of beached Naval and grounded Air Force officers. I don't think it would be uncommon to find a platoon led my a former Navy lieutenant or a a former AF captain acting as XO of a rifle company. I also think you'd see a overall reduction in staff officer positions as they would eventually find their way to line units.

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

Post-nuke the bureaucratic niceties will tend to be mostly out the window and I would think that in most units the promotion process would become decidedly irregular by modern standards.

I don't know. I think it could go the exact opposite where those in charge try to hold on to every aspect of "normalcy" that they can in the face of nuclear war. I've ran both types of settings in my campaigns in the past. Some were fun, others weren't, but the group dynamic is the important part.

Without a steady supply of replacement personnel from CONUS, which doesn't exist circa 2000, the US military in Europe would have to look inward for any replacement junior officers anyway. They'll either end up commissioning proven NCOs, or they'll have proven NCOs doing officer's jobs without the benefit of the rank (which can work in a pinch for a platoon leader, but much higher up the food chain and it gets problematic).

I think it would be the latter here. OCSs aren't something that they can just throw up anywhere due to Congressional constraints. As ties back to the US get strained and the real government splits into its various factions, I think direct commissioning would become more utilized. The officer corps as it is has a strong jump in with both feet and sink or swim mentality where professional development is concerned.

I think NCOs would just be given the jobs without the benefit of the rank, though. The precedent already exists and the confidence in the NCO corp is too strong. The common thought processes are that NCOs are technically capable in most aspects other than doctrine and Powerpoint. Those tend to be the realm of the O's while techniques and procedures fall to the NCOs. This is what I would see utilized more in the Twilight War, Techniques and Procedures and less Tactics, as one of my old platoon sergeants used to delineate them.

For enlisted promotions, I suspect by 2000 it just boils down to the unit commander and some key subordinates having a huddle and deciding who they want to advance to fill an NCO leadership position. Issues like points, time in service, and actually being MOS qualified for the job by 2000 are going to take a backseat to demonstrated ability to deal with the requirements of soldiering in the year 2000.

Agreed.

At the same time, I could also see a lot of stagnation for others in the system. By Y2K, the US military "up or out" system is going to be a thing of the past, and some guys may end up being career privates, particularly if they have behavior issues off duty/in garrison and such.

Agreed again. There will always be a need for more Privates through Specialist than any other rank.

[jester]

Here is something to consider since the bureacracy was brought up.

How often does paperwork get lost or just slow in working its way through channels?

Now apply this to some of the more recently arrived troops in theater. Once the nukes started flying, communication got messed up, and troops were shuffled from one unit to another as stragglers or to fill in the gaps and now, there is no telling where their parent unit is. Or, Pvt Schmukatelli is with the 5th in Poland when he was with the 14th who is now in Yugoslavia, or even Iran, and they have his promotion warrant, but the folks in the 5th know nothing about it. So, he is still a Pvt as far as they are concerned and he knows.

After all, alot of the promotion records would be dust, or so far removed and it really would not be a major priority with the remaining and limited communications lines and abilities. Heck, I had it happen to me twice in peacetime when the entire system was up and running, so my view is, it would be pretty common in 2000 or 2013 <for you guys playing the newer version>