2nd Marine Division - Norther Poland

[atiff]

Hi LB,

I knew I got it from somewhere, but couldn't remember where... I was scavenging a lot, and lost track of the sources. Kudos to you!

Andrew

[Legbreaker]

Thanks. I had a week or so free and the time on my hands to research it all...
Even checked out suitability of the ports along the Polish coast for resupply operations or even landing of heavy equipment - trucks, tanks, other vehicles (by 2000 in canon there's almost nothing left capable of dealing with more than small fishing boats that doesn't glow in the dark).

[Dog 6]

leg did you ever work out what ships other then the Hancock ?

[oldschoolgm]

Thanks Leg, great stuff there. Are there any maps anywhere that show all these movements?

[Legbreaker]

The USS Tarawa was definately involved - an Osprey is shown in the Nautical & Aviation colour plates as being from it and in Poland/Baltic in the summer of 2000.
There is no other reference anywhere of warships in the region.

I have made the assumption that the Tarawa was sunk (loosing all those supplies) and the rest of the Division travelled on fishing boats and other small craft. Might be a few LCT type vessels though.

I haven't created a map of the movements and frankly don't think I have the skill to do it justice. I'd be very happy if somebody took on that task.

There's also very little information on German movements during the offensive. My presumption was (as written) they were engaged by Pact forces before they could get very far.

Part of the reason I had the 2nd Marines withdraw was that they were described in Going Home as having grown as a direct result of the offensive - picked up more troops and tanks. This to me says they swept up stragglers as the rest of XI Corps withdrew westward as their supply lines were threatened and news of the 5th's destruction came through.

[pmulcahy11b]

The Marines in the area are also said to have a Leopard tank in their possession (in the OOB in US Combat Vehicle Handbook, I believe), which implies that possibly either the Marines and the Germans were operating in the same area, or that stragglers from one of the German units made their way to the Marines' lines. (Or the Marines just found it, abandoned.)

[Rainbow Six]

One of the first Challenge magazines published after T2K was first released had an article entitled "Looter's Guide to the Baltic Coast" which gave some more info on various towns / cities in Northern Poland. Might be info in there that might be useful?

[oldschoolgm]

I guess I'll be reading 'Going Home' today to freshen my memory up on what's there.

One of the things I'm kinda curious about as I read this information is that the offensive began and was suppose to cross accross the Northern portion of Poland. The impression I've gotten from the books is that the XI Corps was spread from the Baltic coast to close to the central part of Poland. The 3rd German Army seems to have stayed along the Baltic, though from rereading this a couple of times, they may have launched more from the center since that seems to be where the bulk of the Soviet and Polish forces seem to have been placed in this region.

So I guess my question is, and why I was wondering if there was a map showing this offensive, if the 5th Div was the spearhead how did they get pushed so far south while everyone else stayed to the north, and what path did the 8th Div follow to get so far into the interior?

[Dog 6]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

The USS Tarawa was definately involved - an Osprey is shown in the Nautical & Aviation colour plates as being from it and in Poland/Baltic in the summer of 2000.
There is no other reference anywhere of warships in the region.

I have made the assumption that the Tarawa was sunk (loosing all those supplies) and the rest of the Division travelled on fishing boats and other small craft. Might be a few LCT type vessels though.

I haven't created a map of the movements and frankly don't think I have the skill to do it justice. I'd be very happy if somebody took on that task.

There's also very little information on German movements during the offensive. My presumption was (as written) they were engaged by Pact forces before they could get very far.

Part of the reason I had the 2nd Marines withdraw was that they were described in Going Home as having grown as a direct result of the offensive - picked up more troops and tanks. This to me says they swept up stragglers as the rest of XI Corps withdrew westward as their supply lines were threatened and news of the 5th's destruction came through.

The Nautical/aviation book says in the color plate notes on page 57 "attached to the Atlantic fleet in 2000" it says nothing about summer 2000 or Poland. with the general lack of fuel in the world, I'd have to say its sitting on the US east cost out of fuel

if you assume it was off the cost of Poland and carrying the 2nd mardiv. then you can't sink it until it offloads on the beach. if you do you've just sunk half the divisions men and all of its tanks, AFV's and other heavy equipment. Tarawa class LHA's carry 1700 troops, 100 tanks and 160 trucks. I can't see what other ships would be left that could carry the men, tanks, AFV's, trucks and heavy equipment. A much better ship to sink imo would be a Charleston class amphibious cargo ship. carrying only 360 troops but 10,000 tones of fuel and supply's.


after digging out my T2K books and looking through them I can see no ships off the cost of Poland. if I was using "cannon " only I'd not have them move massively by sea, I'd have them leap frog down the cost using the 30-40 amtracks they have along with a few LCU-2000's and fishing boats, maybe add in a German cargo ship. that would also be the best way for them to pick up the tanks and equipment from 7 countries talked about in Going Home.


just my 2 cents