2nd Marine Division - Norther Poland

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

The Tarawa had to have been sunk sometime before TF34 otherwise (to me at least) it makes much more sense for it to have been the flagship rather than an old destroyer.

Leg, firstly I agree with you that the Tarawa would be a logical choice ro serve as TF34 flagship if it was available.

However, at the risk of sounding pedantic, it doesn't have to have been sunk - it just needs to have been rendered inoperable. I'd suggest it's possible that it successfully completed its mission in the Baltic, offloading whatever elements of the 2nd Division it happened to be carrying, then headed back to potentially safer waters as it was too important an asset to be kept in harm's way any longer than was absolutely neccessary. Perhaps on its way back to those safer waters, it encountered a situation that left it severely damaged (hit a mine, attacked by torpedo boats or maybe even an airstrike - if avgas were available, the chance to knock out the Tarawa would surely warrant its use?) but rather than sinking it managed to limp into a port, where it is currently stranded? Maybe it even made Bremerhaven, but was left behind when TF34 sailed?

To be honest, I'm really just thinking of scenario possibilities such as a team of PC's being sent on a mission to retrieve something that was left on the ship?

[oldschoolgm]

Thanks for linking that other forum thread, that thread has talked about a lot of specific questions that were starting to pop up for me. The map is awesome in that it gives me a good visual of how the offensive began and it's objectives.

Between what you guys have given me and what I've found on my own I now have a lot to build upon to really give my game some life when I'm ready to start it.

I'll start a new thread for my next set of ideas and questions.

Great stuff guys, thanks again.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

... it doesn't have to have been sunk - it just needs to have been rendered inoperable.

Very true, however if only damaged, I'd be inclined to locate it in an area it's resources cannot be used during Omega (or have the majority of it's useful C & C facilities destroyed).
My thoughts are that if damaged, it should be to approximately the same degree as the ship in Satellite Down (can't think of the name off hand).

[Dog 6]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Very true, however if only damaged, I'd be inclined to locate it in an area it's resources cannot be used during Omega (or have the majority of it's useful C & C facilities destroyed).
My thoughts are that if damaged, it should be to approximately the same degree as the ship in Satellite Down (can't think of the name off hand).

that's what I'd do, have it off the beach of kolobrzeg. like
i said before, you'd have to let it off load 2ndMardiv's heavy equipment before sunk. maybe have a commando raid burn it....

[pmulcahy11b]

Have it torpedoed by the Barrikada (the Soviet sub in Boomer), just to tie it in with published T2K materials.

[Blakrider]

the problem with the TARAWA is that in the baltic, it would be a bomb magnet. odds are, it is on the bottom, if it wasnt sunk in the north atlantic

bot on the more interesting side, the 2nd Marine Div wouldnt be alone. the Volksmarine had the 28th and 29th MRR trained and equipped as Naval infantry and they also had a number of LST's and other landing craft.

(found althis out whent researching a Rostock sourcebook i was creating)

[Legbreaker]

I doubt the 28th and 29th would be needed to assist the Marines once they're on the ground (the 2nd Marines are one of the largest units left in 2000), but their naval transport resources would be very useful getting them to the AO.

The Barrikada has been stuck in the ice too long I think for it to be a viable option to remove the Tarawa. Perhaps a coastal torpedo boat, or even just a mine would be enough given the lack of supporting vessels?

I can see Pact naval assets wreaking havok on the marine's transports. A few small motorboats armed with AT-4's, RPGs and whatever else they could scrounge up would be a real worry for the fleet commander.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Very true, however if only damaged, I'd be inclined to locate it in an area it's resources cannot be used during Omega (or have the majority of it's useful C & C facilities destroyed).
My thoughts are that if damaged, it should be to approximately the same degree as the ship in Satellite Down (can't think of the name off hand).

Agreed.

Actually, I should have looked at a map before suggesting Tarawa might have made it back to Bremerhaven, as that would have entailed going all the way around Denmark which strikes me as unlikely - it would burn more fuel and expose the ship to the risk of attack for a longer period (I'm making the assumption that Sovs would have made sure that the Kiel Canal was rendered impassable early in the War).

Whilst I like Dog6's idea of having her sit just off Kolobrzeg (and perhaps intact enough to still serve a useful purpose, possibly even serving as XI Corps HQ), it's equally possible she could have made one of the German Baltic ports such as Lubeck, Rostock, or Kiel all of which (going from memory) are garrisoned by non US NATO units. Perhaps one of those units have "requistioned" her and are working to get her operational (dependent on the extent of the damage) so they can use her for their own purposes (and making sure that the Americans think she is far more damaged than she actually is). Even if she was never able to put to sea again, I'm sure she would still be a valuable resource for the Germans or the Danes.

There's also the question of what happens to the crew. Dependent on how many actually got off (and where) I'd expect lots of them to have been drafted into various XI Corps units.

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

There's also the question of what happens to the crew. Dependent on how many actually got off (and where) I'd expect lots of them to have been drafted into various XI Corps units.

Maybe that's why the 2nd Marine Division has the high rifle strength that it now does?

[Legbreaker]

Regarding the Tarawa, if it were beached or otherwise not on the bottom, it would not be in a port in Poland - there simply aren't any not in Pact hands which are capable of taking such a large vessel (all too small, too shallow, too nuked, or a combination of the three).

The crew of the ship, once immobilised/sunk/etc would almost certainly have joined the nearest friendly unit. It's pointless for them to have stayed aboard if there was no hope (as would be the situation in 2000) of recovery and repair.
My guess is that the Captain would have ordered the ship scuttled, perhaps even drawing on the services of a nearby engineer unit to destroy it with a demolition nuke.

Chances are the ship would already be suffering damage from earlier in the war that could not be repaired with the available resources - perhaps it needed dry docking to replace a screw, plus the flight deck had some sizable weak spots from missile/bomb hits which had been patches up to the best of the crew's ability. Could even have been on the fringes of a nuclear blast with radio antenna's destroyed, electronics fried, even perhaps a little residual radioactivity in the vessel's hull (which of course the higher ups would do their damnedest to keep quite).

It's even potentially possible that the 2000 landings were considered to be a one way trip for the ship - one last throw of the dice to win the war which would secure the ability to then salvage the ship and repair it at leisure.

[LAW0306]

I have order of battle and history of II MEF in Europe from fall 96 to 00. I tried to make it as close to cannon and follow book history. You must remeber that Marines Deploy as MEU (2,600) MEB( 17,000) MEF (50,000) Personel not as Division as army units do. I will address this in histroy. It might explain why they have so Many guys in end. II Mef should have 2nd MARDIV, 2nd MAW , 2nd MLG. Hope this helps.

[Legbreaker]

It needs to be remembered in this particular case that the Marines deployed as a Division and not some other type of unit.

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

It's even potentially possible that the 2000 landings were considered to be a one way trip for the ship - one last throw of the dice to win the war which would secure the ability to then salvage the ship and repair it at leisure.

I have though about a group of PC's who would scout wrecks along the coast as a possiblity of expanding OP Omega, though about it as naval adventure?

[Legbreaker]

I'm not too sure ships could be salvaged in T2K - it's a hard enough job even with today's resources.
Stripping them down on the other hand for parts....
In my previous post I was thinking more long term, a year or two perhaps, or that the ship(s) in question were beached close to the necessary industrial facilities.
Basically though I'm not even convinced myself it's much of a viable idea.