Personal Weapons Load or Team Gear?

[Matt W]

Background: According to the RP supplement all Morrow Project Teams have the capacity to rebuild. (This justifies the need for all those Degrees). The main TM1-1 rulebook also lists the large amounts of weaponry that can be carried by each individual team-member (the Weapons loads)

However, there is presumably a trade-off between being heavily-armed and being well-equipped with the tools necessary to rebuild a nation - especially since the amount of space in an APC is very finite

Therefore, I'm wondering if anyone has suggestions on "Team" gear loads (to include weaponry and gear) that might replace the individual and vehicle loads

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by Matt W

Background: According to the RP supplement all Morrow Project Teams have the capacity to rebuild. (This justifies the need for all those Degrees). The main TM1-1 rulebook also lists the large amounts of weaponry that can be carried by each individual team-member (the Weapons loads)

However, there is presumably a trade-off between being heavily-armed and being well-equipped with the tools necessary to rebuild a nation - especially since the amount of space in an APC is very finite

Therefore, I'm wondering if anyone has suggestions on "Team" gear loads (to include weaponry and gear) that might replace the individual and vehicle loads

One of the biggest problems is the "canon" of being 150+ years after "The Big Bang". One of the suppositions of the project was to "come up" after 3-5 years depending on conditions. There would be a huge availability of both raw and finished materials with the Project filling in with knowledge to help the survivors. The arms were to help protect those survivors from the evil doers in the world.

The other thing available were the regional supply depots that would help fill in any gaps of needed materials.

Hence your correct statement of too many weapons not enough stuff to fix things up.

The average Team in a post 150+ scenario has to come up with solutions to problems that might have been simple with a 3-5 year availability.

I know in many of the games I have played and run, helping a family build a farm house can be a MAJOR undertaking for the Team.

[nuke11]

I think Mike08 may be on the right track.

Since the project was susposed to wake up 3-5 years after WWIII, there is going to be large amounts of equipment, salvage and new raw materials to help rebuild the US, not really a big need for the project to pre-place large amounts of materials ahead of time.

The reverse of this also means there are going to be large amounts of firepower out there that is going to be in the hands of persons that are not going to be to freindly to one looking to take there hard won supplies to "help" others and for the good of the nation.

[Matt W]

I disagree.

Nowhere in TM 1-1, can I find a suggestion that Morrow Project teams are supposed to take a "Police" or protective role (except possibly MARS teams). The RP supplement states "Teams were trained to fight because they might have to. It was hoped that most teams would never need to fight"

I grant you that "Magnificent Seven" scenarios have become a stereotypical component of TMP - but I don't think that the original teams were set up to protect helpless farming communities from bandits. This is probably because in the "3-5 years after" period, all surviving communities would be able to defend themselves.

Because if they couldn't feed and defend themselves after 3-5 winters... well... they wouldn't be 'surviving communities'

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by Matt W

I disagree.

Nowhere in TM 1-1, can I find a suggestion that Morrow Project teams are supposed to take a "Police" or protective role (except possibly MARS teams). The RP supplement states "Teams were trained to fight because they might have to. It was hoped that most teams would never need to fight"

That is all very true, Matt. However, there is another point I want to explore. In any kind of rebuilding scenario, there needs to be some kind of group that can provide security to those who are trying to pick up the pieces.

I refer you to the National Guard during Hurricanes Katrina, Floyd, Hugo and others. I also refer you to the 82nd Airborne following the earthquake in Haiti, American forces in Afghanistan helping the flood victims in Pakistan and others.

During a nuclear war scenario, the US Govt will be helpless, much less the state govts. Morrow Project is probably the only power available to secure the locals from those who would rape, pillage and steal.

Mike

[Matt W]

Originally Posted by mikeo80

T
During a nuclear war scenario, the US Govt will be helpless, much less the state govts. Morrow Project is probably the only power available to secure the locals from those who would rape, pillage and steal.

Mike

If the US and State governments (with hundreds of thousands of personnel) are helpless then ... a few dozen Morrow Project personnel are going to be a 'drop in the bucket'.

Hurricane Katrina showed that it takes THOUSANDS of security personnel to achieve stability over an area the size of a city. Even securing a village would require a platoon and - at least in my vision of the Project - the Morrow Project just doesn't have sufficient people to run security/stability operations

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by Matt W

If the US and State governments (with hundreds of thousands of personnel) are helpless then ... a few dozen Morrow Project personnel are going to be a 'drop in the bucket'.

Hurricane Katrina showed that it takes THOUSANDS of security personnel to achieve stability over an area the size of a city. Even securing a village would require a platoon and - at least in my vision of the Project - the Morrow Project just doesn't have sufficient people to run security/stability operations

Matt,

I agree with you as far as the size of Morrow vs the USA Pre Bang.

Morrow Planners thought the project would start 3 + 5 years post bang.

However, TM 1-1 did postulate a 95%+ death rate the first six months to a year. Once Morrow came up in the 3 - 5 year time frame, the population of the USA could be supposed to be in the 5 - 10 million range. That population would be spread very thinly across the available "clean" areas. Hence a 5 - 10 person Morrow Recon Team could reasonably help a town of 100 - 300.

With the "canon" universe of Bang + 150...

THe population has stabilized and started to grow again. However the tech level has declined to 1750's - 1800's. THis gives MP the advantage of superior tech, but the knowledge base of the survivors has erroded. So MP has to build down to the level that the people they are helping can help, and maintain the new building. Also per "canon" there is no C3I. That means ech team is on its' own.

Most of the games I have been in or have run, this lack of supporting tech and lack of C3I, has left the team supporting A village. THen, IF things go well, the team goes to the next village.....

THe typical campaign I have been in is one of very slow growth with the team doing a LOT of teaching to try and help bring the locals up to approx 1850 - 1900 level tech.

Mike

[helbent4]

Group,

There appears to be some misconceptions or assumptions that have become accepted over the years.

1) While there turned out to be a 95% die-off, there is no evidence this was the "assumed" casualty rate for the Project. In fact, you can make the case that the Project was geared for a limited exchange (with US casualties in the millions, not hundreds of millions), not a full-scale thermonuclear holocaust. Further, for the purposes of "Project planning", what actually happens 150 years in the future is not relevant.

2) The Project in general wasn't organised or meant to "go it alone" in almost any sense so team size and ready supplies is less of an issue. Teams are supposed to assume a leadership and training role, that is, to act as a "cadre". Although they could if needed, Project teams wouldn't necessarily provide local security in an active sense but instead train local police and paramilitary security forces (presumably under the aegis of local authorities, if present).

3) It's strongly implied in PF-10 Final Watch that there is an established C3I capability. Prime base is mentioned in TM 1-1, as well as Regional and Group commands and a supply/logistical network. There is an extensive network of dedicated communications facilities both manned and automatic (see Final Watch Commo Kilo Alpha). Control and Intelligence is glossed over somewhat but at least implied. I think it's a reasonable assumption that teams were never expected nor are they really equipped to operate on their own.

Relating this to the original question of should there be some kind of team issue as opposed to personal issue in order to allow for more reconstruction capability, I don't think it's necessary to cut down on protection in favour of reconstruction. There is no possible way to stuff enough supplies and materials in team caches to rebuild society. Heck, even a single medium-large farm needs vast amounts of seed and fertiliser to yield a decent crop. In TM 1-1 it does say that most reconstruction materials are stockpiled in the permanent Depots. (It's possible these depots even have an industrial and manufacturing capacity, maybe partially or fully automated.) There is therefore a logistical chain that would provide for materials and supplies in the long term, but bear in mind these stockpiles are still finite.

My (unproved) assumption is that most supplies and materials for reconstruction will be gained through salvage or local suppliers (if they exist). Failing that, as a kind of emergency measure supplies and materials are stockpiled in bulk in the permanent depots, regional and group supply bases and then shipped to the teams as needed. As a kind of desperation measure in case everything goes wrong (like the canon scenario) teams are also provided with their caches, which hopefully could sustain them until they are established in a community or make contact with the Project (or other) supply source.

In other words, the usual assumption in TMP is the caches are the primary source of supplies for a team. I think that it's the other way around: they are emergency stockpiles, only to be used in desperation. Caches are focused on team survival and community assistance is clearly secondary. Not because said assistance is not important, but because immediate team survival (in terms of needed equipment, munitions and food) is the overall priority.

Tony