Cavalry in Twilight 2000

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

Not disagreeing- bikes will be a lot more common than horses, after all even with things being as messed up as they are, setting up a small bike factory would be relatively easy (not so sure about sourcing tyres, but...). In fact I think most infantry units will be awash in them.
My point is that the use of the unit will shape if its horse mounted or bike mounted. Bikes are limited in that if you want to carry more than yourself and 20 or so kilos of stuff you need trucks, and the stills that goes with them. But you don't need any specialised personnel and feed horses will. Horsed units on the other hand can pull wagons and artillery, can, for the most part, live off the land with little or no supply of "tech". But, they do require training, both to ride as well as trained farriers, vets, etc.
So: a few horse units yes, primarily in the scout/screen/raid type of uses, but the bulk of the average joe's in the larger units riding bikes as much as possible, just in a non-tactical way.

Early bike tires were made of wood with leather "tires". In the Vietnam War, the NVA made tires for their bicycles from old truck tires. I can actually see this sort of cavalry far more readily than I can see horse-mounted cavalry.

[Abbott Shaull]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

Early bike tires were made of wood with leather "tires". In the Vietnam War, the NVA made tires for their bicycles from old truck tires. I can actually see this sort of cavalry far more readily than I can see horse-mounted cavalry.

Even in WWII there were troops with the UK forces during the landings at and after D-Day that brought bikes over for this purpose.

Yeah, I can see these type of lightly armed troops being employed, doing much of the work that many of the so called small Cavalry units were doing. One of the advantages is that with Cavalry if they dismount to fight, you still need to leave handlers and protection with the horses. Where as bike mounted troops ideally you would need security element with the bikes once dismounted, but then again it wouldn't actually be needed if it was a situation where every rifle counted on the Line.

[James Langham]

Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull

Even in WWII there were troops with the UK forces during the landings at and after D-Day that brought bikes over for this purpose.

Yeah, I can see these type of lightly armed troops being employed, doing much of the work that many of the so called small Cavalry units were doing. One of the advantages is that with Cavalry if they dismount to fight, you still need to leave handlers and protection with the horses. Where as bike mounted troops ideally you would need security element with the bikes once dismounted, but then again it wouldn't actually be needed if it was a situation where every rifle counted on the Line.

Although they did dump the bikes on landing as useless.

There was the Hungarian (?) Fast Corps in Barbarossa who used bikes.

Actually I can see bikes being were useful in a home defence situation "when the bell rings all get straight to HQ."

Their biggest disadvantage is a lack of cross country mobility.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by James Langham

Although they did dump the bikes on landing as useless.

There was the Hungarian (?) Fast Corps in Barbarossa who used bikes.

Actually I can see bikes being were useful in a home defence situation "when the bell rings all get straight to HQ."

Their biggest disadvantage is a lack of cross country mobility.

I don't know about the cross-country mobility, I've seen bikes ridden on the sides of mountains and in deserts...

When biking supplies down the Ho Chi Minh Trail, the NVA wouldn't ride the bike, they would put a socket and attach a wooden pole in place of the seat and the "rider" would walk along side guiding the bike, often with loads of up to 400lbs.

Bikes could also be adapted to tow two and four wheel carts. There are sketchs and pics of bikes towing two wheel machine gun carts. Or teams of bikes attached to a shaft and towing small wagons.

Sitting down and looking over the comments already posted...I think a stronger case could be made for bicycle troops and then use a smaller number of horse-mounted troops for areas where you couldn't get a bike into.

[Mohoender]

As much as I think that bicycles are interesting and should be developped by GM. I won't consider them superior to horses.

Bicycle troops will not be useful in the same situation than horses. Bicycle troops are really efficient in defensive tactics but they are seldom capable of conducting the raids that Horse cavalry can conduct.

In addition, I would expect bicycle to have replaced horses in Asia but not in USSR. I have never seen any use of bicycle troops in Russia.

Something else plead for the reality of horse cavalry among the soviet army. Cavalry had been used actively up to 1947 and the last units were disbanded in the mid-1950's. Officers and soldiers who had served with these units will still be around, old (over 55) but still around.

You might also have more horses surviving in Russia than in US. While US soldiers might hesitate in shooting at a crowd of civilians, KGB and red army troops might not be that regarding.

Other troops will be equally useful as well:
- Camel troops in desert areas
- Ox patrol in Asia (I'm not inventing it, i saw that somewhere)
- Dogs in Canada and Siberia
- Mules in mountains

I forgot: both bikes and annimals should be around.

[Webstral]

As is so often the case once we discuss the post-Exchange possibilities and probabilities, a wide variety of options exist for “cavalry” units. Units will develop their own tactics and doctrines based on the available manpower and equipment, as is so often the case in Twilight: 2000. Mo, I’m glad you brought in other animals. Pack animals other than horses might be used to do all of the load bearing, leaving the horses to transport only a cavalryman and his basic load.

I think we would see a lot of these ideas maturing by the end of 2003. Breeding programs would be providing some adult animals by this point. At the same time, the global fleet of operable vehicles would have shrunk even further. Operable vehicles probably will have been stripped to the absolute minimum weight to conserve fuel.

Lamentably for the US, Mexico has a leg up when it comes to post-Exchange horse-powered formations. Mexico enters the Twilight War with a lot more of its rural economy still dependent on equines. The very limited nuclear strikes on Mexico won’t affect Mexico’s horse population the way the European horse population will be affected. Hunger in 1998 will take its toll on the horse population, but the relatively intact Mexican Army and police will be in a better position to requisition horses than, say, Polish or German authorities. One might even argue that the Mexican state would have deliberately rounded up all horses in places like Oaxaca and the Yucatan, where horses are still to be found in some numbers and where the locals are predominantly of non-European ancestry.

Consequently, we might see a fair number of cavalry troops in operation against US forces. This has some implications for Fort Huachuca, since I have consistently maintained that the Mexican armor and motor transport is going to be sent to Second Mexican Army in California and Fourth Mexican Army in Texas. In the considerable area of Arizona, cavalry will be superior raiders and reconnaissance forces compared to foot mobile infantry and light AFV that might run out of fuel at an inopportune moment. This is going to require more thought.

Getting back to the horse population, some time ago I posted a few notes about the role of wild horses in the emerging Arizona economy of early 2001. SAMAD becomes a major consumer of captured horses once troops from Huachuca start reaching out into the state in force in 1999. By “consumer” I mean that Fort Huachuca purchases these horses for military use. Horses (among other items) flow to SAMAD from the northern parts of the state, while manufactured items—particularly new small arms and ammunition—flow back. Flagstaff, home of the remnants of the Arizona state government and 1st Brigade (AZSTAG), also purchases horses. Once the remnants of the marauder bands operating throughout the northern and eastern portions of Arizona are hunted down or dispersed, the surviving towns throughout the region can turn to producing food, animal transport, and raw materials for SAMAD in exchange for a variety of manufactured goods.


Webstral