Police forces in T2K?

[Webstral]

I support Abbott's position. Where a civil government remains intact, the police most likely form the cadre/nucleus of the militia. Terminology will vary by location, but it seems likely that in many locations the police will handle routine actions, supplemented by the local militia as needed. How the police and the local militia interact with whatever military organization has nominal authority over the area also will vary from location to location.


Webstral

[Abbott Shaull]

Well if one re-read the material most of the material from Armies of the Night, many of the "communities" their militia were largely ex-police officer and gangs members. One has to remember in the US there have been laws in which only during National Emergency and Martial Law are US military personnel are allowed to intervene. Even then it is clear what a military unit can and can not do.

Of course, how the local military unit Commander view these laws will vary with mileage. There are select documented cases where the local military commander took more drastic measures than other places. In many cases taking over the local government in the name of the of the US Government whether they are doing so for their own sakes or to secure things for their respective government.

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull

One has to remember in the US there have been laws in which only during National Emergency and Martial Law are US military personnel are allowed to intervene. Even then it is clear what a military unit can and can not do.

Abbott,

One might well remember, but I think that at some point in the Twilight War the US military has completely forgotten anything resembling constitutional or legal restrictions. To be charitable, perhaps the rationale is that such "peacetime" niceties and formalities are only temporarily put aside until some kind of order and normalcy is restored.

Tony

[Rodneye]

I like the police force of France and it is the best police force of the world which is very strict in case of law.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Rodneye

I like the police force of France and it is the best police force of the world which is very strict in case of law.

Not a feeling I'm sharing but not the subject either.

[Abbott Shaull]

Originally Posted by helbent4

Abbott,

One might well remember, but I think that at some point in the Twilight War the US military has completely forgotten anything resembling constitutional or legal restrictions. To be charitable, perhaps the rationale is that such "peacetime" niceties and formalities are only temporarily put aside until some kind of order and normalcy is restored.

Tony

Yeah, I am sure there that the legacy as time pass gets lost as people who are in charge of units are trying to do what they think is best to save their command and in some case what left of the local population. One has to remember the units that are operating say the New England would have different out look than units say operating in Texas, Arizona, California, and Alaska.

Unit commanders far away from being on the Front would be hard press afterward to justify taking such action once the 'peace' is restored. While on the Front-lines areas it would be expected since their are enemy troops activity in the area.

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull

Yeah, I am sure there that the legacy as time pass gets lost as people who are in charge of units are trying to do what they think is best to save their command and in some case what left of the local population. One has to remember the units that are operating say the New England would have different out look than units say operating in Texas, Arizona, California, and Alaska.

Unit commanders far away from being on the Front would be hard press afterward to justify taking such action once the 'peace' is restored. While on the Front-lines areas it would be expected since their are enemy troops activity in the area.

Abbott,

There will be local variations, of course. I would hope many military commanders would act in a noble and honourable manner towards both their commands and any civilians. A lot will depend on the local situation and the personality of the commander in question.

One also has to remember that the US military at large is operating in a situation that can charitably be described as "extra-legal" at best. The US military as a whole is already going to have to justify its actions in overthrowing civilian control in large areas of the country (whatever the moral or legal argument). Leadership is a top-down affair; local commanders taking their cues from above may likewise feel justified in doing what they feel is necessary under the circumstances despite what the law or precedent might say.

Tony

[Webstral]

I penned a few pieces a while ago regarding the policing phenomenon in New England leading up to and following the redeployment of US military forces to the Southwest and Pacific Northwest in 1998. At the heart of my work on the subject is the thesis that the military does comparatively little of the policing. The police continue to do that work, backed by local militia. The military tackles the big projects—the stuff that is too big for the cops to handle. This worked okay throughout much of the US during the first half of 1998 because armed groups that got too big for the cops to handle were prime targets for the military, who prefer set-piece battles anyway. The missing ingredient would have been militia who could have supplemented the police in actions that would have been too small for military support but too big for the police to handle.

Anyway, the large-scale deployment of US forces to the states bordering Mexico, Alaska, British Columbia, and Washington changed the security situation right across the country by incentivizing large-scale grouping of outlaws. If one wants to look at the issue in military terms (which is not necessarily the best way to look at it), in many parts of the country in early 1998 the lawless would have operated like guerillas. They might have been willing to fight the police, but they would not have wanted to attract the attention of the local Army unit with its APC and heavy weapons. Therefore, outlaw bands that grew large enough to hold their own against the police would have survived by moving well away from areas the military would have wanted to defend. Outlaw bands operating in the sticks would have presented a modest threat compared to the same groups operating in populated areas. The relative scarcity of resources in the sticks would have reduced the effectiveness of bandit groups. However, the absence of military might would have enabled bandit groups to coalesce and challenge the cops.

Obviously, my model is very simple and essentially devoid of nuance. However, in places where law and order were not immediately overwhelmed following the TDM, I think the model generally can be applied. This may be one of the reasons contributing to the decision by the creative minds at GDW to go with the drought. Once the population and local food production became more aligned, the situation would have become much more stable. I could see where some might not find this sort of thing much fun—especially if one plays Twilight: 2000 with The Road Warrior in mind.


Webstral