The Soviet Cuba Division

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull

Wonder if the Cuban would liberate the equipment for themselves...

I would think yes if you go with the statement made in the game. Cuba wanted to get rid of the Soviets in hope of remaining neutral. Then, arming them is their best option to get rid of them. However, I wonder where these T-80s come from?

[Canadian Army]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

However, I wonder where these T-80s come from?

Maybe they were part of this lot:
"In late 1993 Russia signed a contract with the People's Republic of China for the sale of 200 T-80U MBTs for evaluation. For unknown reasons only 50 were delivered." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-80#Pe...ublic_of_China)

[Mohoender]

Interesting good point

[WallShadow]

Originally Posted by Canadian Army

Maybe they were part of this lot:
"In late 1993 Russia signed a contract with the People's Republic of China for the sale of 200 T-80U MBTs for evaluation. For unknown reasons only 50 were delivered." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-80#Pe...ublic_of_China)

Makes one wonder how the T-80 export model fared against the "home-consumption" model in the Sino-Soviet clash?

[Olefin]

An interesting link that could bring some light on what the division might have been composed of

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-09-...1_soviet-union

"MOSCOW — President Mikhail S. Gorbachev announced Wednesday that he has decided to begin withdrawing Soviet troops from Cuba, winding down a 32-year military alliance with the Western Hemisphere's only Communist regime.

Secretary of State James A. Baker III hailed the move as "a very substantial gesture" that would help Gorbachev win economic aid from the West.

"We will soon begin discussions with the Cuban leadership about the withdrawal of the Soviet training brigade in Cuba," Gorbachev told reporters at the Kremlin after meeting with Baker for more than two hours. He said he expects that the brigade will leave Cuba in the "near future."

Gorbachev said the Soviet Union has about 11,000 military personnel in Cuba. Other officials said the training brigade he mentioned included fewer than 3,000, or about one-fourth of the total."

it goes on to say

"The withdrawal of the training brigade announced by Gorbachev would still leave as many as 8,000 Soviet troops on the island, including a motorized rifle brigade of about 3,000 and an unknown number of military intelligence personnel.

Gorbachev's figure of 11,000 for Soviet troop strength in Cuba was significantly higher than most Western estimates, which run from 7,700 to 9,000.

The Soviet military uses Cuba as a major base for electronic eavesdropping on the United States and Latin America, as a facility for resupplying submarines that patrol the U.S. coast and as a landing point for Backfire bombers. It is unclear from Gorbachev's remarks whether those functions would be affected by his cut"


Another link I found is this http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articl...ollapsing-cuba

It mentions the following: " In September Gorbachev announced that the Soviet Union would pull its 11,000-man military brigade out of Cuba—a figure subsequently explained to include 3,000 combat troops, 3,000 signal intelligence personnel, 3,500 military advisers and some civilians in military-related roles"


So at the very least you are looking at a 3000-3500 man training brigade and a motorized rifle regiment of 3000 men along with those manning the eavesdropping facility (3000 strong) and the naval personnel that manned the resupply facility for a total of 11,000 men.

That, combined with withdrawn personnel from various embassies in the area and possibly KGB and GRU personnel who were in Cuba would make for enough manpower for sure for a division.

If you look at what is written about them in the Texas module you can see they had a mix of BTR-70's and BMP's, with the BTR-70's being more prevalent which suggests it was a BTR Motorized Rifle Regiment and not a BMP one. Also what is interesting is that unless they were heavily reinforced by the Cubans with tanks, a MRR only has about 41 total tanks - a single tank battalion with an extra tank in the HQ section. Given what they had left it would mean they had only lost 26 tanks taking on the 49th which doesn't sound that realistic given the composition of the 49th. Most likely that means the Cubans reinforced them with tanks from their own units, thus resulting in the mix of tanks they have left - i.e. mostly T-72 or T-80 but also could be types the Cuban Army was equipped with.

So if you base its composition on historical information:

One Motorized Rifle Regiment - 3000 men with one tank battalion and three BTR battalions (which would have some BMP's as well) - the one on duty in Cuba

One Motorized Rifle Regiment - again about 3000 strong, most likely being the training personnel - armed with Cuban material - most likely a mix of BMP-1's and BTR-60's along with a tank battalion of T-62's

One Tank Battalion - another 40 or so tanks, again most likely Cuban T-62's or T-54/55 - 165 men

Recon Battalion and Engineering Battalion - around 350 men each

Artillery Regiment, SAM Regiment, various other support battalions - most likely formed from the signal and support troops in Cuba - about 3600 men or so if they were formed at full strength

One Helicopter Squadron of about 18 helicopters with at least some surviving to 2001, most likely heavy on attack helos, probably reinforced by captured American civilian helicopters (as mentioned in the Texas module the Soviet commander was hoping to use the fuel to get his attack helicopters back into operation) - maybe 200 men

Add it up its about 11,000 men - which matches what Gorbachev said was there in 1991

Plust that gives the Soviets around 120 tanks of various types at the start - which gives them more than enough to engage the 49th with a real possibility of victory when you add in the BTR's and BMP's that are with them