Don't have my "Into the Howling Wilderness" yet...

[HorseSoldier]

As stated, I don't think the idea of flying it out is feasible unless someone made an early call and acted on it. Relocation to a more secure setting than Kentucky might have preceded the emergence of CivGov -- post TDM you've pretty shortly got New Anerica formally hanging out their shingle on Appalachia, which could have prompted movement elsewhere (possibly not CO Springs at that point -- might be funny if MilGov's new hiding spot went over to CivGov subsequently).

Though there might be an interesting campaign in the 194th cantonments with a gold reserve thrown in -- some fuel to support aviation ops, lots of disposable income, but short on manpower. End result could see PCs jumping into areas under New America or CivGov control with attaché cases full of gold to try to run agents, buy the loyalty of local warlords etc.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

As stated, I don't think the idea of flying it out is feasible unless someone made an early call and acted on it. Relocation to a more secure setting than Kentucky might have preceded the emergence of CivGov -- post TDM you've pretty shortly got New Anerica formally hanging out their shingle on Appalachia, which could have prompted movement elsewhere (possibly not CO Springs at that point -- might be funny if MilGov's new hiding spot went over to CivGov subsequently).

Pre nuke there's almost no need whatsoever to shift the gold. Why take it out of the most secure facility on the face of the planet? Where exactly could you take it without months, even years of preparation?
Between the nukes in November 1997 and the collapse of the pre-war government mid 1998, there's no chance of anything more than a couple of bars being moved - the resources are all tied up coping with the aftermath of being nuked.
Once the government fell apart, there's simply no resources left, not to mention the chaos just keeps getting worse and worse.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Pre nuke there's almost no need whatsoever to shift the gold. Why take it out of the most secure facility on the face of the planet? Where exactly could you take it without months, even years of preparation?

It is possible that the US Government did have (and indeed may still do have) such a contingency plan which includes a pre prepared place where the gold could be taken and stored. Obviously it makes sense for the existence / location of such a facility to be classified as secret. And the facility could have been prepared years in advance.

The unknown factor is what event (or events) would need to happen for these contingency plans to be put into action - in this case when is it decided that it is safter to move the gold than leave it in situ? It's possible that one of the events that might cause plans to be implemented is the first release of tactical nuclear weapons in the summer of 1997.

So I do think it's possible that the gold at Fort Knox might have been moved sometime in the late summer / early autumn of 1997 (i.e. before the TDM) as a precaution...quite apart from anything else the US Government of the time wouldn't have had the luxury of knowing that the exchange would be limited in nature and that Knox wouldn't be a target, so I think one could argue that moving it to a secret location was a sensible option in terms of risk vs reward, the worst case scenario in not moving it obviously being the possibility of losing it all if Fort Knox is attacked by a large enough weapon.

(As an aside, for what it's worth, the British Government had a plan in place to transfer gold from the Bank of England to a prepared spot in North Wales)

http://www.flintshirechronicle.co.uk...1352-26573180/

[Legbreaker]

I can't see shifting that much gold, or that much of anything really, being kept secret. There's likely to be hundreds of people involved (most just as guards) and those around Ft Knox are certainly going to be making a few wild guesses about where all those trucks are headed, so obviously loaded down.
Even with a damn fine cover story, the truth is almost certain to leak out.

How will the general population react when they hear Ft Knox has been emptied? Ft Knox, the place where the most valuable papers in the US are stored in times of trouble (aka the original constitution).

It's also very likely some people will know where it's taken to as well. That much transportation is going to raise a few eyebrows - it's not something that's likely to be forgotten in a hurry.

[Rainbow Six]

Leg, fair points.

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

How will the general population react when they hear Ft Knox has been emptied? Ft Knox, the place where the most valuable papers in the US are stored in times of trouble (aka the original constitution).

In general, this leads into one of the points in the T2K timeline that I find myself spending a lot of time mulling over...namely what happens in terms of public reaction, Government planning etc in the period between the first use of tac nukes in the summer and the strategic exchange in November?

I've always thought it possible - maybe even probable - that the public reaction is likely to be panic in any event, and there would be a mass exodus from major population centres during July and August as people fear the worst. Granted, as the summer goes on without a full scale exchange many people would then return to their homes. I seem to recall Howling Wilderness alludes to this and I do remember Webstral referring to what he calls "The Alert" period in some of his pieces.

So to come back to the specific point of Fort Knox, I think there's likely to be widespread panic anyway...and I still think the US Government (and other Governments) have to plan for the worst case scenario...so that means implementing whatever contingency plans they have. As you rightly state it would be a huge logistical excercise to move all of the gold out of Fort Knox, but I kepp coming back to the same point, namely the challenge of moving it has to be weighed (no pun intended ) against the risks involved in leaving it where it is.

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

It's also very likely some people will know where it's take to as well. That much transportation is going to raise a few eyebrows - it's not something that's likely to be forgotten in a hurry.

Agreed, although perhaps not all of the gold goes to the same place. Either way, I don't think that's a dealbreaker when the alternative is the risk of your national gold reserves being lost completely.

[Legbreaker]

My guess, and there's no way to know for sure, is that the Depository is well protected against nuclear attack almost up to (and possibly including) a direct hit. Strengthening it's defences surely has to have occurred in the 50+ years since it was first constructed, especially in reaction to the threat of nukes. I can imagine the US government spent a LOT of time, effort and money in the 50's and 60's hardening the facility - this has got to be easier than planning to move such a huge volume of precious metal and other items in a time of national stress and peril.

Even if the exterior was irradiated, my guess is that it wouldn't matter much - it's not like the gold was ever intended to be pulled out of storage and shipped overseas as payment for anything.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

My guess, and there's no way to know for sure, is that the Depository is well protected against nuclear attack almost up to (and possibly including) a direct hit.

Maybe they upped the protection after watching Goldfinger!

[HorseSoldier]

Pre-nukes I can't see it moving, but post-nukes you have a budding insurgency in the area once New America goes active. It is possible removal of the gold to a more secure part of the country would make sense while the resources were there to move it. I agree that under normal emergency conditions leaving it at Knox is the most logical course of action. Add in growing reports of an organized guerrilla movement nearby that makes Knox seem significantly less secure and the decision making might be different.

That said, I suspect that the 194th took the gold with them when they pulled out, as previously stated, but think it's possible the depository got emptied earlier.

[Legbreaker]

New America did not activate until the 1st of January 2001. I greatly doubt they would be a factor.

Basically, NA effectively did not exist before this time. Civgov are nowhere to be seen and Milgov simply doesn't have the resources nearby. Once NA activates, and they activate over a very wide area don't forget, shifting the gold becomes even less likely due to the heightened risk of any convoy's being ambushed.

The 194th moved out of the area in August 1999 and directly into combat with the 84th Infantry - they would have been completely unable to take even a portion of the gold with them. Even if they could scrounge up the necessary vehicles and crew, and assign adequate guards, what if the 194th had lost against the 84th? The gold would then fall into the hands of Civgov, something I'm certain Milgov would have been very keen to avoid.