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[95th Rifleman]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

As far as the only terrorist attack I ever escaped was performed by Christian, I can only agree. In 1988, over France, members a fundamentalist christian group launched a number of attacks in movie theaters showing "The last temptation of Christ". The first attack was made in a theater on St Michel square (Paris) and resulted in 14 people burnt to various degrees (I was supposed to be there and changed my mind while waiting in line, I was lucky that day). Another attack made one dead.

The most outrageous about this is that five people involved in the first attack were only condemned very lightly : jail with sursis (which means that they never ever got in jail) and a 70000$ fine (for all five). That fundamentalist group (AGRIF) is still in existence today. Yes I know justice is blind.

It's similar for us Brits, we suffered for decades from attacks by the IRA (and the reprisals by the loyalist paramilitaries like the UVF) both sides where Christian.

We need to be wary of falling into the trap of assuming all Muslims are the same, this is EXACTLY what the terrorists want. They want the west to turn on their moderate islamic popuations, they want the moderates to feel threatened and persecuted so that they will join the extremist mindset.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Originally Posted by 95th Rifleman

It's similar for us Brits, we suffered for decades from attacks by the IRA (and the reprisals by the loyalist paramilitaries like the UVF) both sides where Christian.

We need to be wary of falling into the trap of assuming all Muslims are the same, this is EXACTLY what the terrorists want. They want the west to turn on their moderate islamic popuations, they want the moderates to feel threatened and persecuted so that they will join the extremist mindset.

Exactly! This is all they are trying to achieve - cause more division, fragment the opposition and garner new recruits from more moderate members of their faith/political persuasion by making the opposition treat them badly.

Here in NI it has long been said that the greatest recruiter for the Republican movement was Bloody Sunday. Likewise, after the Remembrance Sunday bombing in Enniskillen, the Loyalist groups gained an influx of recruits. This was all as a reaction to the actions of 'the other side'.

Likewise it does no good to stereotype a religion, race or political movement, although this it is much easier to say this than stick to it. I've personally experienced the stereotyping of both sides of the troubles over here. When I was living here in Belfast I would automatically be perceived as Loyalist/Protestant because of the part of the city I lived in, where I went to school etc. By the same token, when I went to England to uni I ended up getting scooped under section 12 of the prevention of terrorism act on suspicion of Republican sympathies - long story, but essentially I got lifted for walking while Irish. Suffice to say I wasn't a terrorist of either side (my then girlfriend's Dad was a senior RUC officer) but it did get me to thinking a bit more about things - certainly had the police mistreated me in any way I could have become more sympathetic towards the Republican side. It’s hard to do, but please try and treat everyone as an individual and try not to buy into propaganda about them or their beliefs.

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by 95th Rifleman

It's similar for us Brits, we suffered for decades from attacks by the IRA (and the reprisals by the loyalist paramilitaries like the UVF) both sides where Christian.

We need to be wary of falling into the trap of assuming all Muslims are the same, this is EXACTLY what the terrorists want. They want the west to turn on their moderate islamic popuations, they want the moderates to feel threatened and persecuted so that they will join the extremist mindset.

well put

[headquarters]

I still think the moderates will dominate in the end.

Sure we will have problems with religious factions - some due to circumstance and some due to the people in them being intolerant or nutjobs..

We have our share up here too, but luckily, so far, knock on wood, violence has been almost non existence save the odd bloodied nose.

I seem to see a change in people in general - when they become parents. Many -not all of course - soften their beliefs and focus more on whats closer to the heart.

As the old Norwegian poem says about fatherhood and peace-

for he who carries on his arm an irreplacable burden,
cannot murder

( it rhymes well in our beautiful Norse tongue )

so - to peace and long FtF sessions

[Fusilier]

Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull

Both Christianity and Muslim faith do discuss tolerance in their teaching of people who believe in other religions."

A few of my favorite tolerance verses...

"Jews are the greediest of all humankind. They'd like to live 1000 years. But even that would by no means remove the doom." Quran 2:96

"Only evil people are disbelievers." Quran 2:99

"The disbelievers, they are the wrong-doers." Quran 2:254

"Those who disbelieve in the Quran, for whatever reason, are cursed by Allah, the angels, and men combined. So every good Muslim must join Allah and the angels in cursing nonbelievers." Quran 2:161

"The doom of the disbelievers will not be lightened." Quran 2:162

"It's you and your religion against them and theirs. They won't stop fighting until they make you a "renegade from your religion" and if they succeed in that so you die in disbelief, Allah will burn you forever in the Fire." 2:217

"Don't believe anyone who is not a Muslim." Quran 3:73

"Don't be friends with non-Muslims. They all hate you and want to ruin you." Quran 3:118

"A hypocritical Jew looks like an ass carrying books. Those who deny the revelations of Allah are ugly." Quran 62:5

"Smite (cut) the necks of the disbelievers whenever you fight against them. Those who die fighting for Allah will be rewarded." Quran 47:4

"Only wrong-doers deny the revelations of Allah." Quran 29:49

"Allah will make disbelievers' lives miserable in this world and torture them forever after they die." Quran 2:114

"Allah gave Muhammad the one true religion and sent him to conquer all other (false) religions." Quran 61:9

"Those who oppose Allah and His Messenger will be among the lowest." 58:20

"Stay away from non-Muslims, especially those who disbelieve in the afterlife." Quran 53:29

"Those who disbelieve in the afterlife give female names to angels." Quran 53:27

"If you refuse to fight for Allah, he will punish you with a painful doom." 48:16

"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" Quran 8:12

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." Quran 9:29

"Those who disbelieve are guilty folk." Quran 45:31

"Those who disbelieve will taste hard punishment." Quran 41:50

"Intermarriage is forbidden." Quran 2:221

"Those who oppose Islam will be slain with a fierce slaughter." Quran 33:60-61

"Allah will taunt the Christians in hell, saying: Where are all my parnters that you used to believe in?" Quran 40:73

"Those who disbelieve are the owners of the Fire." Quran 40:6

"Those who disbelieve will be driven into hell." Quran 39:71-72

"Allah will make non-believers "taste humiliation in the life of the world" and " the doom of the Hereafter" which will be even worse." Quran 39:26

"Those who deny the messengers deserve doom." Quran 38:14

"Allah killed everyone in Sodom except for Lot and his family." Quran 37:136

"Allah drowned everyone except Noah and his family in the flood." Quran 37:82

"Those who refuse to believe in Muhammad's revelations will face a painful doom." Quran 37:31-38

"Disbelievers will burn forever in the fire of hell. Allah will keep them alive so that he can torture them forever. When they repent and ask for mercy, he will ignore them." Quran 35:36-7

"Ignore disbelievers and their poisonous talk." Quran 33:48

"Don't obey disbelievers." Quran 33:1

"When the Hour comes, Christians will be divided into two groups: Those who believed Allah's revelations, and those who disbelieved in them. The believers will be happy in the Garden; the disbelievers will be brought to doom." Quran 30:13-16

"Those who disbelieve in the revelations of Allah are the losers." Quran 29:52

"Never help disbelievers." Quran 28:86

"Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers." Quran 2:191

[95th Rifleman]

I'm trying to resist the temptation to dredge up similar verses from both the Bible and the Torah.

It does both amuse and dismay me that we seem to have to have an enemy. It's more pronounced in the English and American mentalities but is present throughout the west.

Way before WW2 we where persecuting jews and using religous texts to justify their demonisation. We all know how tat hobby turned out in the end don't we?

The majority of the problems between islam and the west can be traced back to the crusades when some daft pope called Pious yelled "Deus volte!" and with two words justified the murder and rape of any poor soul who wasn't a catholic.

With the fall of communism we have pounced on islam as the next boogey man under the bedn and sure as winter and taxes, we will find another one in a century or so.

The only thing that will ever unite the human race is the discovery of inteligent life outside this earth. Then we can unite in our hatred of it.

[Fusilier]

Originally Posted by 95th Rifleman

The only thing that will ever unite the human race is the discovery of inteligent life outside this earth. Then we can unite in our hatred of it.

Or unshackling ourselves from outdated dogmatic beliefs and continuing with the Enlightenment and the Age of Reason. With an emphasis on education, logic and rational, critical thinking, we can always wait for aliens later.

It isn't humans that are flawed beyond hope.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Fusilier

Or unshackling ourselves from outdated dogmatic beliefs and continuing with the Enlightenment and the Age of Reason. With an emphasis on education, logic and rational, critical thinking, we can always wait for aliens later.

Yes. A world of Yes. Couldn't have put it better myself.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Fusilier

continuing with the Enlightenment and the Age of Reason. With an emphasis on education, logic and rational, critical thinking.

Too bad these are shadded in blood and treachery. Founding a new age might be a better option. The age of reason is as outdated as the dogmatic beliefs.

[Fusilier]

Originally Posted by 95th Rifleman

I'm trying to resist the temptation to dredge up similar verses from both the Bible and the Torah.

You can always start with slavery being okay.

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ." (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Slavery FTW!!!!!!11111

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by 95th Rifleman

It does both amuse and dismay me that we seem to have to have an enemy. It's more pronounced in the English and American mentalities but is present throughout the west.

Nothing so surprising as the West is Christian. Christianity was first adopted by Emperor Constantin in order to win a war. Ever since, it has constantly been brought forward for the same purpose. The fault, however, might not be in Christianity but in Constantin.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by headquarters

I still think the moderates will dominate in the end.

Who was it that said something like "all it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to stay silent"?
Given that uncomfortable truth, my money is on the extremists and fundamentalists punching well above their weight.