British Infantry Rifles

[James Langham]

Originally Posted by Rockwolf66

My info is dated to the first Gulf War so it works for a TW2K game.

Generally the usual image of the SAS is guys who apear out of nowhere driving vehicles that could take out anything seen in the film Death Race. They might trade for some local info or maybe a few comfort items and any high value target in the area goes boom...Heck the destruction of high value targets in an area is usually how you know they are around.

Depends on the environment, Europe will be more foot work and close observation as opposed to direct action (at least while airstrikes are available).

[95th Rifleman]

Originally Posted by James Langham

Depends on the environment, Europe will be more foot work and close observation as opposed to direct action (at least while airstrikes are available).

Pretty much.

There is an endearing myth about the SAS that goes back to their WW2 days as raiders. The modern incarnation of the SAS are mostly recon and observation units. The Gulf war was a good example, the SAS was tasked with finding Iraqi scuds and calling down airstrikes, they where not tasked with going after them directly.

Compare that to the Russian Spetsnaz whose task is to go behind enemy lines and sabotage rear areas and eliminate HVTs.

Another role the SAS has found themselves in the past is as advisors and trainers, in asimilar fashion to the US green berets. In the twilight war I can envision SAS teams assistin anti-communist units behind soviet lines.

That's not to say the SAS can't or won't go after HVTs, especialy after the NATO air forces start to wind down operations due to losses and lack of parts. But it's not their primary role anymore.

[James Langham]

Originally Posted by 95th Rifleman

Pretty much.

There is an endearing myth about the SAS that goes back to their WW2 days as raiders. The modern incarnation of the SAS are mostly recon and observation units. The Gulf war was a good example, the SAS was tasked with finding Iraqi scuds and calling down airstrikes, they where not tasked with going after them directly.

Compare that to the Russian Spetsnaz whose task is to go behind enemy lines and sabotage rear areas and eliminate HVTs.

Another role the SAS has found themselves in the past is as advisors and trainers, in asimilar fashion to the US green berets. In the twilight war I can envision SAS teams assistin anti-communist units behind soviet lines.

That's not to say the SAS can't or won't go after HVTs, especialy after the NATO air forces start to wind down operations due to losses and lack of parts. But it's not their primary role anymore.

Another role for 23SAS was rescue to shot down pilots.

[95th Rifleman]

Originally Posted by James Langham

Another role for 23SAS was rescue to shot down pilots.

Good point

[HorseSoldier]

Originally Posted by James Langham

Another role for 23SAS was rescue to shot down pilots.

If I recall correctly, the Cold War Territorial SAS units were tasked with a bunch of stay behind/infiltration missions in the Warsaw Pact rear -- calling air strikes and artillery on high value targets in the deep battle area, recovery of aviators and other isolated personnel (taking over the role of, if I recall correctly, MI 9 in WW2), and some tertiary derring do with raiding/sabotage of rail lines, bridges, etc. Not having to cover down on contingency missions and having a fairly specialized remit was (I'm guessing) hoped to overcome the difficulty of keeping reserve special operations effective.

Similar with at least some of the US reserve SF units. At least one battalion, maybe the whole group in 11th or 12th SFG (US Army Reserve) spent several decades training to do the same sort of role in Norway if the balloon went up. The other USAR group and two NG groups switched around some on area orientation and such but guys from the former USAR side of SF I've talked to made it sound like there was always a reserve SF unit slated to support NATO's northern flank.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

Similar with at least some of the US reserve SF units. At least one battalion, maybe the whole group in 11th or 12th SFG (US Army Reserve) spent several decades training to do the same sort of role in Norway if the balloon went up. The other USAR group and two NG groups switched around some on area orientation and such but guys from the former USAR side of SF I've talked to made it sound like there was always a reserve SF unit slated to support NATO's northern flank.

That was 1/10th SFG. In addition, part of the SFDB's job was to exfiltrate West Berlin and do sabotage and hit-and-run raids in East Germany and East Berlin.

[James Langham]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

If I recall correctly, the Cold War Territorial SAS units were tasked with a bunch of stay behind/infiltration missions in the Warsaw Pact rear -- calling air strikes and artillery on high value targets in the deep battle area, recovery of aviators and other isolated personnel (taking over the role of, if I recall correctly, MI 9 in WW2), and some tertiary derring do with raiding/sabotage of rail lines, bridges, etc. Not having to cover down on contingency missions and having a fairly specialized remit was (I'm guessing) hoped to overcome the difficulty of keeping reserve special operations effective.

Similar with at least some of the US reserve SF units. At least one battalion, maybe the whole group in 11th or 12th SFG (US Army Reserve) spent several decades training to do the same sort of role in Norway if the balloon went up. The other USAR group and two NG groups switched around some on area orientation and such but guys from the former USAR side of SF I've talked to made it sound like there was always a reserve SF unit slated to support NATO's northern flank.

Of course all of this goes out of the window in Twilight 2000 with the way the war starts...

[James Langham]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

If I recall correctly, the Cold War Territorial SAS units were tasked with a bunch of stay behind/infiltration missions in the Warsaw Pact rear -- calling air strikes and artillery on high value targets in the deep battle area, recovery of aviators and other isolated personnel (taking over the role of, if I recall correctly, MI 9 in WW2), and some tertiary derring do with raiding/sabotage of rail lines, bridges, etc. Not having to cover down on contingency missions and having a fairly specialized remit was (I'm guessing) hoped to overcome the difficulty of keeping reserve special operations effective.

Similar with at least some of the US reserve SF units. At least one battalion, maybe the whole group in 11th or 12th SFG (US Army Reserve) spent several decades training to do the same sort of role in Norway if the balloon went up. The other USAR group and two NG groups switched around some on area orientation and such but guys from the former USAR side of SF I've talked to made it sound like there was always a reserve SF unit slated to support NATO's northern flank.

Might be worth checking my article on 27SAS too.

[James Langham]

Updated version adding sniper rifles, a note about SF rifles and a few minor edits.

[Tackleberry]

Originally Posted by James Langham

Updated version adding sniper rifles, a note about SF rifles and a few minor edits.

L96 originally was fitted with a 6x S&B scope, but was upgraded to a 3.5-12x50 S&B scope with SIMRAD Image Intensifier night vision capability.
L118 is an SF only weapon, with the ability to swap to a suppressed barrel and 6x S&B scope and SIMRAD II.

1991 .50" M82 Barrets also became SF sniper rifles with a 12x scope. Originally these were EOD weapons, but were never cleared for non SF use after CHS issues. The Accuracy International AW 50 Bolt action .50 Sniper rifles replaced the M82's in EOD units and in small numbers came into SF service.

HK G3K's and Stoner AR18's were also used by SF units.

[Rockwolf66]

Originally Posted by 95th Rifleman

Pretty much.

There is an endearing myth about the SAS that goes back to their WW2 days as raiders. The modern incarnation of the SAS are mostly recon and observation units. The Gulf war was a good example, the SAS was tasked with finding Iraqi scuds and calling down airstrikes, they where not tasked with going after them directly.

Compare that to the Russian Spetsnaz whose task is to go behind enemy lines and sabotage rear areas and eliminate HVTs.

Another role the SAS has found themselves in the past is as advisors and trainers, in asimilar fashion to the US green berets. In the twilight war I can envision SAS teams assistin anti-communist units behind soviet lines.

That's not to say the SAS can't or won't go after HVTs, especialy after the NATO air forces start to wind down operations due to losses and lack of parts. But it's not their primary role anymore.

I'm going by reports comming out of the first Gulf war. Yes they did mostly call in Airstrikes...But they also did some direct action missions. A Squadron of the 22nd SAS did perform a direct action at a high value target at Victor 2. the target was supost to be protected by a platoon of about 30 men. Durring the strike they found themselveds in a firefight with ten times that number. Other scudhunting groups prepared to go with direct actions in the case of Human shields. I'm not saying that it's their primary mission, most of my kin's actions in the past 50 years was gathering intelligence and leading a Firqua. That's one of the gratest strenghts of the SAS they adapt to the tactical and stratigic needs of Great Britan.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Rockwolf66

That's one of the gratest strenghts of the SAS they adapt to the tactical and stratigic needs of Great Britan.

The SAS troopers at their main base not far from me, at Campbell Barracks in Swanbourne, don't usually seem to have much interest in "adapting to the tactical and strategic needs of Great Britain" .

[95th Rifleman]

Originally Posted by Targan

The SAS troopers at their main base not far from me, at Campbell Barracks in Swanbourne, don't usually seem to have much interest in "adapting to the tactical and strategic needs of Great Britain" .

Dunno, if we need a bit of support out there I'm sure our colonial kin will be willing to lend a hand.

[James Langham]

Originally Posted by 95th Rifleman

Dunno, if we need a bit of support out there I'm sure our colonial kin will be willing to lend a hand.

Even without officially playing some of them turn up in Poland helping against the Russians!

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by James Langham

Even without officially playing some of them turn up in Poland helping against the Russians!

Or are they really helping the Russians against NATO? They wouldn't be the first of the west's allies to switch sides...