OT: China's new carrier

[95th Rifleman]

While for different reasons, i agree with your statement dragoon500ly

[Webstral]

I read something interesting the other day that sheds some new light on the carrier:

"Moreover, since the white barbarians came by ship, the traditiopnal Chinese defensive strategy was completely reversed. The sea now took the place of the steppe. China's frontier was no longer on the Great Wall or at the Jade Gate in Kansu, but at Canton and Shanghai. Age-old conceptions had to be reversed accordingly" (Fairbank, 1972, p. 142).

The Chinese may be practicing nothing more than what the West Germans called "forward defense" back in the day. The further out you push your defensive lines, the more ground you can give up during a fighting withdrawal.

Fairbank, John K. (1972). The United States and China (3rd Ed). Harvard Univeristy Press: Massachusetts.

[RN7]

Originally Posted by Webstral

I read something interesting the other day that sheds some new light on the carrier:

"Moreover, since the white barbarians came by ship, the traditiopnal Chinese defensive strategy was completely reversed. The sea now took the place of the steppe. China's frontier was no longer on the Great Wall or at the Jade Gate in Kansu, but at Canton and Shanghai. Age-old conceptions had to be reversed accordingly" (Fairbank, 1972, p. 142).

The Chinese may be practicing nothing more than what the West Germans called "forward defense" back in the day. The further out you push your defensive lines, the more ground you can give up during a fighting withdrawal.

Fairbank, John K. (1972). The United States and China (3rd Ed). Harvard Univeristy Press: Massachusetts.

I think the Germans and the Japanese had the same idea in WW2, but they just called it Empire and Lebensraum.

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by RN7

I think the Germans and the Japanese had the same idea in WW2, but they just called it Empire and Lebensraum.

I know that sort of thing is fun to write, but demonizing the Chinese a priori serves no good purpose. By doing so create a lens through which events are interpreted to fit an operating premise; i.e., the Chinese are up to no good. They may in fact be up to no good. Stampeding to that conclusion hastens conflict and makes the avoidable inevitable.

[RN7]

Originally Posted by Webstral

I know that sort of thing is fun to write, but demonizing the Chinese a priori serves no good purpose. By doing so create a lens through which events are interpreted to fit an operating premise; i.e., the Chinese are up to no good. They may in fact be up to no good. Stampeding to that conclusion hastens conflict and makes the avoidable inevitable.

Well if they still consider Westerners to be "white barbarians" as you quoted, then you would have to wonder what their motives are.

[Webstral]

Cultural bias does not equal wars of aggression or any of the crimes of which Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were guilty. Don't get me wrong: the Chinese ain't fluffy bunnies. They are hard people with an agenda. Nonetheless, it's useful to understand where they are coming from in interpreting their actions.

I'm guilty of not giving sufficient context to my quoted material. This passage describes the situation in the 1800's, when Europeans started making serious inroads into China's economy. I used it in a current context because the Chinese remember their history. One could argue that the economic explosion in China is a direct result of the hard lessons learned by China at the hands of the West. Wars are won by powers that have the right combination of wealth, technology, and manpower. China is determined not to be victimized again, and China wants her place in the sun.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Webstral

Wars are won by powers that have the right combination of wealth, technology, and manpower.

And, often, ruthlessness.

[RN7]

Originally Posted by Webstral

Cultural bias does not equal wars of aggression or any of the crimes of which Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were guilty. Don't get me wrong: the Chinese ain't fluffy bunnies. They are hard people with an agenda. Nonetheless, it's useful to understand where they are coming from in interpreting their actions.

Tibet, Xinjiang!

Originally Posted by Webstral

I'm guilty of not giving sufficient context to my quoted material. This passage describes the situation in the 1800's, when Europeans started making serious inroads into China's economy. I used it in a current context because the Chinese remember their history. One could argue that the economic explosion in China is a direct result of the hard lessons learned by China at the hands of the West. Wars are won by powers that have the right combination of wealth, technology, and manpower. China is determined not to be victimized again, and China wants her place in the sun.

The funny thing about Chinese perception of aggression from the West is that the nations that have historicaly harmed them the worst were other Asian people, ie the Japanese and the Mongols. America who has been the greatest of all Western powers for some time has in fact been China's greatest ally.