Air Tactics - the SAMbush

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

And one rumored reason they retired the F-117A was because the Russians figured out how to track that design of stealth aircraft.

My understanding is (and this from the horses mouth so to speak - signals tech posted there) is that Australia had that capability from day one using our "over the horizon" radar network.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jindale..._Radar_Network
Reading through the article, it strikes me that NO aircraft is completely invisible - the thing is so sensitive it can at the very least detect turbulence, if not the aircraft itself, thousands of miles away!

Next stage of development seems to be the ability to detect pigeons and sparrows...

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

My understanding is (and this from the horses mouth so to speak - signals tech posted there) is that Australia had that capability from day one using our "over the horizon" radar network.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jindale..._Radar_Network
Reading through the article, it strikes me that NO aircraft is completely invisible - the thing is so sensitive it can at the very least detect turbulence, if not the aircraft itself, thousands of miles away!

Next stage of development seems to be the ability to detect pigeons and sparrows...

From what I understand, the Australians have been able to track comings and goings of B-2s from Diego Garcia. But they're the only ones who have managed that (as far as I know). I'm guessing that they're working with the US right now on how to counteract that.

[Legbreaker]

Now why would we do that?

[Raellus]

Paul, these are the RPVs/UAVs the Israelis used to trick the Syrian SA-6 batteries into turning on their targetting radars for the waiting Israeli Wild Weasels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tadiran_Mastiff

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAI_Scout

I recall seeing pictures of similar UAVs being launched from the fantail of one of the Iowa class battleships for use as a long rage artillery spotting platform for the ship's 16" guns. They used a crash netting type system to recover the vehicles. IIRC, such a set up was used against Iraqi shore positions in Kuwait during the '91 Gulf War.

[Matt Wiser]

Quail wasn't used over NVN. EB-66 jamming, Wild Weasel F-105s, and the B-52s' own jamming did the job. Still, the NVN shot down 16 B-52s (all in 1972: one during the last month of LINEBACKER I, 15 during LINEBACKER II).

A lot of what the Navy calls IRON HAND (anti-SAM) is rightfully classified. My cousin (USN F/A-18 driver) has flown that mission in exercises and on Night One of OEF, when there were SA-2s around Kandahar that were believed to be operational. But if ODS is a guide: the use of TALD, ITALD, and MALD decoys helps the attacker: the decoys, often with blip enhancers, force the defender to turn on their radars, and that attracts the HARM shooters. Even if you're out of HARMs, just call "Magnum" over the radio, and that will make the bad guys turn off their radars-they don't know you're out of ordnance, and for all they know, there's a HARM (or other antiradar missile) inbound.

Many Soviet tactical SAMs (SA-6, SA-8, SA-11, SA-15, etc.) have EO backups in case the radar is jammed. As do their naval counterparts.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Paul, these are the RPVs/UAVs the Israelis used to trick the Syrian SA-6 batteries into turning on their targetting radars for the waiting Israeli Wild Weasels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tadiran_Mastiff

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAI_Scout

I recall seeing pictures of similar UAVs being launched from the fantail of one of the Iowa class battleships for use as a long rage artillery spotting platform for the ship's 16" guns. They used a crash netting type system to recover the vehicles. IIRC, such a set up was used against Iraqi shore positions in Kuwait during the '91 Gulf War.

Sometime in the future I'll work on that, but UAV updates are a while out for my site right now.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Sometime in the future I'll work on that, but UAV updates are a while out for my site right now.

No hurry. You asked and I was trying to accomodate.

[Matt Wiser]

ALARM was combat proven in 1991 (ODS), 1995 (Bosnia), 1999 (Kosovo), and 2003 (OIF).