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#1
08-24-2011, 08:26 PM
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In 1988/89 the MOD came out with the MARILYN Report "Manning And Recruitment In The Lean Years of the Nineties" forecaste the forthcoming decline in the 18-22 male demographic in the UK. Between 1990-2000 it was estimated that this demographic group would fall from 2,229,000 in 1990 to 1,788,000 in 2000, about a 19.8 % reduction if my math is correct. The report discussed how the British Army would cope with this and apparently gave some suggestions. I tried to contact the MOD, the NAM, & the PRO for a copy but apparently it's still under the 30 year rule.
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#2
08-25-2011, 07:44 AM
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What's Next on the Agenda Louie? You were working on an ORBAT?
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Lieutenant John Chard: If it's a miracle, Colour Sergeant, it's a short chamber Boxer Henry point 45 caliber miracle. Colour Sergeant Bourne: And a bayonet, sir, with some guts behind. Last edited by dude_uk; 08-25-2011 at 07:52 AM.
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#3
08-25-2011, 10:31 AM
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#4
08-25-2011, 03:10 PM
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I've been tardy posting the ORBAT. Hopefully this weekend since I'll be riding out Hurricane Irene I'll have time to send the draft out. I have to thank Rainbow for all his ideas, insight, and overall outstanding help as it fleshed itself out. I am also working on the IRL ORBAT of BAOR for June 1989, with all attached TA units. I've pretty much have everything down just a matter of typing it in. The only part that might still be "in progress" is the RE section. The official history of the RE vol. XII was supposed to be out this year covering 1980-2000 but it was put back to 2012. Also planning on (in the long term) doing a lineage book on TA units from 1908-2008.
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#5
08-25-2011, 03:32 PM
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Does the British Armed Forces still recruit from the Commonwealth nations? not recuirt troops to the Canadian Army, or Austrialian Army or Kenyan Army... but recruit them for the British Army itself?
the reason I am asking, is that we know that the British recruits the Ghurkhas... couldn't the British also be using a similar program to recruit from the Commonwealth states? Recruits would gain dual citizenship status (Citizenship from their home country and British Citizenship) for their service?
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Fuck being a hero. Do you know what you get for being a hero? Nothing! You get shot at. You get a little pat on the back, blah blah blah, attaboy! You get divorced... Your wife can't remember your last name, your kids don't want to talk to you... You get to eat a lot of meals by yourself. Trust me kid, nobody wants to be that guy. I do this because there is nobody else to do it right now. Believe me if there was somebody else to do it, I would let them do it. There's not, so I'm doing it.
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#6
08-25-2011, 03:58 PM
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#7
08-25-2011, 04:48 PM
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So far this is the outline of the OOB of the British Army for what i'm doing. Divisions aren't completely manned... some might only have 2 Brigades and divisional support personnel. I British Corps (British Army of the Rhine) - 1st Armoured Division - 2rd Infantry Division - 3nd Armoured Division II British Corps (British Army of the Rhine) - 4th Armoured Division - 5th Infantry Division - 6th Division III British Corps (British Army of the Thames) - Home Guard Division (England) - Home Guard Division (Scotland) - Home Guard Division (Wales) - Home Guard Division (Northern Ireland) IV British Corps (British Army of the Euphrates) - 7th Division - 8th Division V British Corps (British Army of the <>) Asia & Pacific Rim - 9th Division VI British Corps (British Army of the Nile) Africa - 10th Division VII British Corps (British Army of the Amazon) - 11th Division VIII British Corps (British Army of the Danube) - 12th Division
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Fuck being a hero. Do you know what you get for being a hero? Nothing! You get shot at. You get a little pat on the back, blah blah blah, attaboy! You get divorced... Your wife can't remember your last name, your kids don't want to talk to you... You get to eat a lot of meals by yourself. Trust me kid, nobody wants to be that guy. I do this because there is nobody else to do it right now. Believe me if there was somebody else to do it, I would let them do it. There's not, so I'm doing it.
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#8
08-25-2011, 04:58 PM
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Agree with Fusilier, not likely to raise the cap in peacetime. I believe the main reasons are that it would seem to be an army of "mercenaries" & it would let the government be more inclined to use the army when the troops & their families are not voters !!!
However once the balloon goes up all bets are off. If you read any of Patrick Delaforce's books you see that the British Army had many other nationalities. IIRC some that spring to mind are an American who enlisted in 1940 that was an Officer in the Hant's by '44. A number of Belgians in Bn.'S of the KRRC & RB. What really struck me was what seemed a whole Recce Plt. Of Eastern Europeans (I forgot which regiment). As for the Commonwealth Rhodesian, South African, Australian, & New Zealanders served in RAF squadrons. While Irish from the Republic enlisted in their thousands for all 3 services. Besides remember a couple of years ago when the POW suggested a Sikh regiment but was shot down by the PC crowd.
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#9
08-25-2011, 06:02 PM
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The Ghurkas are a special case, it's a hold-over from the days of the British East India Company and just as much a reward for Ghurka loyalty as it is for any military benefit to the UK. As I understand it, the UK does not actively seek recruits from former British Commonwealth nations but they are not discouraged from applying. Any personnel recruited from Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Fiji, Kenya, Hong Kong or any other former British Empire nation/protectorate for the British military would join as a member of the British forces but as individuals joining the British military, not as large groups and certainly not as distinct units like the Ghurkas do. Like New Zealand, Australia would be very unlikely to take over from British Far East and Near East formations. We simply do not have the manpower. We had less than 20 million people as of 2006 for a standing army of approximately 30,000 personnel with approximately 17,000 reservists. So from that 47,000 you're probably realistically looking at approximately 12,000 actual combat personnel. Unless there was a direct (and directly Australian) military/political need for Australian forces to relieve British forces in the Far East/Near East, it would be highly unlikely to occur no matter what else was happening on the world stage - we have too small a military with too large a country and too small a population for raising the taxes required for such an expansion. Recruiting to enlarge the military would face all the problems that are being discussed for the British military in this thread but Australia faces a worse situation because we have a far larger country to cover and one of the longest coastlines of any nation on the planet (we're ranked 7th in the world being beaten by Japan, the Philippines, Russia, Greenland, Indonesia and Canada in the number one position). A lot of our revenue is raised from exports. Once worldwide trade is impacted by a global war and we can no longer safely make money from shipping goods to other countries, we would have drastically less money available for enlarging our military. The military could be enlarged by aggressive recruiting but like any Western nation, there are too many needs for personnel in civilian occupations and so the recruit base is going to be very small to start with and funding would have to come from elsewhere in the budget, something certain to make it unpopular with the civilian population. And with less money available we would have even less chance to build up the higher tech side of the military e.g. armoured, air defence and so on.
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#10
09-17-2011, 09:06 AM
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As recently as 2008 volunteers from the Commonwealth accounted for nearly 7% of the British Army's manpower, with soldiers from 42 different countries represented in the Army. The Gurkhas are the largest source, but there are also many volunteers from Fiji, Jamaica and some African countries. There are also recruits from developed Commonwealth countries such as Australia, Canada, NZ and South Africa, especially in the special forces community. The Gibraltar Regiment also recruits from the local population, and there are still many Irish recruits from south of the border in the British Army's Irish units and throughout the British Army and the other services.
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#11
09-17-2011, 07:26 PM
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Yeah. whenever unemployment rates rises... you see the youth joining the armed forces because it's the only open 'starting jobs' that they think they will be able to find. While there is some evidence of that... it's at times to just be the 'easiest' road that they would see.
The truth of the matter is that they can create their own business if they are enterprising enough... i've seen it first hand. My dad went from doing six different part time jobs (and running himself into the ground) to being a General Contractor who built an amazing house on the side of a mountain that could survive pretty much anything that happened. Using a rise in unemployment rates can definately be tied into the timeline i'm working on... Even with the UK producing weapons and equipment for many of the Commonwealth nations around the globe, unemployment outside of the defense and related industres could easily push men and women into the armed forces.
__________________
Fuck being a hero. Do you know what you get for being a hero? Nothing! You get shot at. You get a little pat on the back, blah blah blah, attaboy! You get divorced... Your wife can't remember your last name, your kids don't want to talk to you... You get to eat a lot of meals by yourself. Trust me kid, nobody wants to be that guy. I do this because there is nobody else to do it right now. Believe me if there was somebody else to do it, I would let them do it. There's not, so I'm doing it.
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#12
08-26-2011, 05:24 AM
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 I am still working on my complete UK ORBAT for June 1997 amongst other things.Doing the artillery at the moment and trying to work out if i get away without raising any more artillery units.
__________________
Lieutenant John Chard: If it's a miracle, Colour Sergeant, it's a short chamber Boxer Henry point 45 caliber miracle. Colour Sergeant Bourne: And a bayonet, sir, with some guts behind.
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#13
08-26-2011, 03:48 PM
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Currently I have it at January 2001 before I start amalgamating and re-rolling units. Can anyone see any new niches for units? I have converted some units to NBC and added rehabilitation and demobilization units.
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#14
08-26-2011, 03:50 PM
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With how bad things are... demobilization might not be the best course of action right away. From what i've been told, Regiments in the British Army are drawn from various UK regions. Having these units 'garrisoning' their home town areas might allow for the reconstruction to go much faster with more central planning.
__________________
Fuck being a hero. Do you know what you get for being a hero? Nothing! You get shot at. You get a little pat on the back, blah blah blah, attaboy! You get divorced... Your wife can't remember your last name, your kids don't want to talk to you... You get to eat a lot of meals by yourself. Trust me kid, nobody wants to be that guy. I do this because there is nobody else to do it right now. Believe me if there was somebody else to do it, I would let them do it. There's not, so I'm doing it.
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#15
08-26-2011, 04:12 PM
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Certain areas are going to need garrisons. But of course the main thing once you have pacified all the marauders, outlaws and 'false presidents' is having them helping in the fields to bring the harvest in. Or would the army be exempt to keep morale high?.
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Lieutenant John Chard: If it's a miracle, Colour Sergeant, it's a short chamber Boxer Henry point 45 caliber miracle. Colour Sergeant Bourne: And a bayonet, sir, with some guts behind.
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#16
08-26-2011, 04:24 PM
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Pioneer Corps would probably need to be expanded as well...
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Author of the unofficial and strictly non canon Alternative Survivor’s Guide to the United Kingdom
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