USMC questions

[Fusilier]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

It's not stated, but the word you're looking for is chauvinism.

If that's the reason, then I can't see why a manpower starved organization wouldn't opt to allow anyone in who can pass the training (any MOS).

Their allies and enemies would be doing it - why get left behind and lose out on potential manpower? It's a brave new world and the old ways are out.

[LAW0306]

First off all know here that I'm an active duty Marine and have 20 years EXP in the infantry, if you did not know now you do.

I would not have too many females in a Battalion because there is just not that many! they arn't around. in 1995 they were few and far between. I did not see many and I was at a base with all types of units. Right now today women only repersent 6% of the Marine Corps at 11,000. thats with a total force of 202K active and 40K reserve. so the bare numbers speak for themselfs. most women are not even in this war at any forward bases. you just dont see them. I have two tours in Iraq and Two in Afghanistan. there are small 4 person teams that come to you battalion for a week once a month that are female engagement teams. but they dont work well because there mission is to talk to females in afghanistan....well they stay in side all day and only the very old and very young come out, plus we dont have many female terps so they would not be able to talk to them anyway.

On the logistics side its very rare to see a female convoy commander for a logistics unit or females in there units, most dont want to be out in the shit and if they do they are in the teams i mentioned above and good on them for wanting to kick ass. We did have a Sgt Maj for a logistics unit in our AO that was a female, rare bird here, very strong leader and in very good shape. i had the honor of eating dinner with here twice and she came off as a real pro. thats my two cents and i dont have a opinion if they should be there or not. I let higher figure that out and I comply with orders and none of my views are that of the Marine Corps ,just some one thats been there and missed the line for the T-shirt. If you would like more info on the Marines just Mail me and I would love to help. I have a write up for the Corps in T2k that I have been working on for 10 some years. some day I hope to finish.

[LAW0306]

Total DOD forces (201,575) 14.6% Enlisted (165,231) 14.5% Officers (34,045) 15.2% Army (70,918) 13.7% Enlisted (57,825) 13.4% Officers (12,459) 14.7% Navy (50,904) 15.0% Enlisted (42,400) 15.0% Officers (7,649) 14.8% Marine Corps (11,150) 6.0% Enlisted (10,049) 6.1% Officers (1,101) 5.6% Air Force (68,600) 20.3% Enlisted (54,957) 20.7% Officers (12,836) 18.9%


These are Present day numbers or the closest I could find.

[LAW0306]

I also spell like crap...so you can hit me on that one later. I type to fast for my own good and too lazy to go back.

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

Originally Posted by LAW0306

First off all know here that I'm an active duty Marine and have 20 years EXP in the infantry, if you did not know now you do.

I would not have too many females in a Battalion because there is just not that many! they arn't around. in 1995 they were few and far between. I did not see many and I was at a base with all types of units. Right now today women only repersent 6% of the Marine Corps at 11,000. thats with a total force of 202K active and 40K reserve. so the bare numbers speak for themselfs. most women are not even in this war at any forward bases. you just dont see them. I have two tours in Iraq and Two in Afghanistan. there are small 4 person teams that come to you battalion for a week once a month that are female engagement teams. but they dont work well because there mission is to talk to females in afghanistan....well they stay in side all day and only the very old and very young come out, plus we dont have many female terps so they would not be able to talk to them anyway.

On the logistics side its very rare to see a female convoy commander for a logistics unit or females in there units, most dont want to be out in the shit and if they do they are in the teams i mentioned above and good on them for wanting to kick ass. We did have a Sgt Maj for a logistics unit in our AO that was a female, rare bird here, very strong leader and in very good shape. i had the honor of eating dinner with here twice and she came off as a real pro. thats my two cents and i dont have a opinion if they should be there or not. I let higher figure that out and I comply with orders and none of my views are that of the Marine Corps ,just some one thats been there and missed the line for the T-shirt. If you would like more info on the Marines just Mail me and I would love to help. I have a write up for the Corps in T2k that I have been working on for 10 some years. some day I hope to finish.

Having Been a Pog Marine (mos3311, Field Baker) I have been around my share of Female Marines. Most of them are on the Support bases. I was with the 3rd FSSG and the 3rd LAAM Battalion back in the early 80s. There were a few that went with us to the field when we went, and we had some problems with umm opposite sex encounters in the field. When I was at Cherry Point Marine Airbase there were quite a few WMs. All in all none of them would of been in a combat situation unless we had been in a situation to have been over run.

[simonmark6]

Actually, Law, there's capital letters, sound punctuation, including in sentence, and an excellent use of subordination and co-ordination, all in all, I'd give it a thumbs up.

Mark (resident grammar nazi)

[Raellus]

Thanks for the info, Law and Kalkwarf. I won't be adding too many female NPCs to my battalion (maybe 2 at the most).

My reasoning- and Fuse seems to agree- is that a lot of the women in support units will have been transitioned to combat units by 2000. In my T2KU, the Marines have absorbed a lot of ex-Navy personnel to meet it's manpower needs. I'm assuming that some of those ex-Navy folks would also be women. It seems like, of all the U.S. armed forces, the Navy is particularly woman-heavy. That would probably boost the number of women in Marine support units, at least.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Fusilier

If that's the reason, then I can't see why a manpower starved organization wouldn't opt to allow anyone in who can pass the training (any MOS).

And that's the trick, finding a female who can cut the mustard in combat arms. But they are out there -- I've worked with female soldiers I think could become good infantrymen (and two who actually wanted it and wished regs were different -- and one who wished she could become a Special Forces medic and could probably have physically and mentally managed it). I don't think the training or standards should be watered down one bit for the females to get those crossed rifles (or whatever). But those women are out there in our military, right now, being underutilized.

And BTW, I lost count of the men I met through my career who had no business being in Infantry.

[Fusilier]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I don't think the training or standards should be watered down one bit for the females to get those crossed rifles (or whatever). But those women are out there in our military, right now, being underutilized.

And BTW, I lost count of the men I met through my career who had no business being in Infantry.

Agree on all points.

IMO experience I haven't seen any watering down of training to accommodate for someone who has different genitalia - which is good and the right thing.

[Raellus]

I wonder how the Corps would train all of those ex-Navy replacements from '98 onwards. For the ETO, it would have to happen somewhere in Europe- probably Germany somewhere near the Baltic. It wouldn't be too hard to set up Marine Boot Camp overseas would it? Would the training become a little watered down, do you think?

[Fusilier]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Would the training become a little watered down, do you think?

Probably IMO. Live fire exercises and range shoots using a lot less ammo, skipping out on a lot of the non-combat stuff, shorter field exercises, etc.

I don't think it would be watered down in regards to altering the standards between sexes though. Both would be the same.

[LAW0306]

They would set up Rear areas were MCT could be taught to all new joins. MCT is 18 to 32 day depending when you went. I went Oct 92 and it sucked. we went on longer and faster road marches there than infantry school. had larger pack and crew served weapons at infantry school though.

[weswood]

I don't know how it is currently, but in the mid to late 80's the WMs (Woman Marines) didn't have the same basic training or phitness tests as male Marines.

[waiting4something]

Originally Posted by LAW0306

They would set up Rear areas were MCT could be taught to all new joins. MCT is 18 to 32 day depending when you went. I went Oct 92 and it sucked. we went on longer and faster road marches there than infantry school. had larger pack and crew served weapons at infantry school though.

When I was in, MCT was no longer offered to infantry bound marines. Marines with 0300 mos's went straight to SOI. In SOI we never got trained on crew served weapons unless your mos required it. I never fired a M2HB or MK 19 my whole time in. LAV crewmen and weapons Marines stayed a few more weeks at SOI for their specialty training after passing the SOI course. Not sure how the humps of the two schools compared as I never went to MCT. I just remember everyone in SOI walking around like old men afterwards with sore and torn up feet.

[Graebarde]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

And that's the trick, finding a female who can cut the mustard in combat arms. But they are out there -- I've worked with female soldiers I think could become good infantrymen (and two who actually wanted it and wished regs were different -- and one who wished she could become a Special Forces medic and could probably have physically and mentally managed it). I don't think the training or standards should be watered down one bit for the females to get those crossed rifles (or whatever). But those women are out there in our military, right now, being underutilized.

And BTW, I lost count of the men I met through my career who had no business being in Infantry.

Hell it's easy, they do it all the time... double standards for the crack troop, or lower the standards for all so they can make the cut... yeah I'm old and crass, but I served with women in the TC and MP.. MP are as close to combat as any woman in the army intentionally gets. They are light infantry without heavy weapons support.. There are a lot of good female soldiers that probably can do as well as the average male counterpart in many aspects, but it does come down to upper body strength.. can she hump 100 pounds day after day.. most can't... hell most guys have more than a bit of difficulty with it.. VERY few females have made the groups I was in, or games I've run. But there are always exceptions.. the idea of female SEAL, Ranger, or any special ops is generally true fiction. Yes some is chauvanism as Paul said, but most is the ability to function in the field for extended periods, which is also another draw back to females in the field...

nuff soap box...
FB