The AA-12 shotgun

[Panther Al]

Its always caught my eye, but yes: A special purpose weapon for very limited circumstances.

But then, you've always got those crazy (but fun) russians:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOoUV...er_profilepage

[Schone23666]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

Its always caught my eye, but yes: A special purpose weapon for very limited circumstances.

But then, you've always got those crazy (but fun) russians:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOoUV...er_profilepage

LMAO, love that guy!

You should see this....Russians using the AS VAL rifle (a rather interesting weapon IMO) to shoot down icicles!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eS2MEN-C31U

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

But then, you've always got those crazy (but fun) russians.

A man with a VERY fun pastime! :P
Gotta love it!

[Panther Al]

That guys collection is mindboggling. At first he was using other peoples weapons, but now days his personal armory is getting out of hand from what I have been hearing.


After all, not just anyone has a fully operational battle sta.. err.. 40mm Bofors tucked away in the garage.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

Its always caught my eye, but yes: A special purpose weapon for very limited circumstances.

But then, you've always got those crazy (but fun) russians:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOoUV...er_profilepage

Oh yeah, stumbled across his videos several days ago.

"I am a professional Russian."

[StainlessSteelCynic]

The AA-12 has one very big issue that I think is probably the main reason it hasn't been adopted in any significant numbers.

The magazine is heavy and it doesn't get a lot of support from the magazine well/magazine catch. That 'frame' looking thing that encloses the pistolgrip is actually the magazine support. You have to thread the mag onto that before you can slide it up into the mag well.

Did you notice how in the filmclips they never seem to be in any real hurry to change a mag?
Imagine trying to do that with cold hands, in the mud and rain and at night.

As for the claim that it doesn't need cleaning or lubricating, yes you did hear it right. I paid particular attention to this weapon after hearing the new company make that claim. They are wrong, plain and simple, but it's all part of their publicity hype. They paid big money for the rights to the AA-12 and to update it and they were desperate to recover their costs.
This also had them claiming it was the world's deadliest shotgun - not in the middle of a fumbled mag change it ain't...

[Legbreaker]

Fix the mag issues and it could be a pretty damn good weapon...
Another small issue is the huge size of the drum mags. Most of the volume is basically wasted space. Three 10 round mags look like they are more compact than one drum which is a big issue for soldiers when they've got limited space in their webbing.

[LAW0306]

I have new toy .... M590A1 Blackwater



http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...ed=0CBoQ9QEwAA

[Legbreaker]

How is that relevant to the topic of this thread, the AA-12 besides being a shotgun?

[waiting4something]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

The AA-12 has one very big issue that I think is probably the main reason it hasn't been adopted in any significant numbers.

The magazine is heavy and it doesn't get a lot of support from the magazine well/magazine catch. That 'frame' looking thing that encloses the pistolgrip is actually the magazine support. You have to thread the mag onto that before you can slide it up into the mag well.

Did you notice how in the filmclips they never seem to be in any real hurry to change a mag?
Imagine trying to do that with cold hands, in the mud and rain and at night.

As for the claim that it doesn't need cleaning or lubricating, yes you did hear it right. I paid particular attention to this weapon after hearing the new company make that claim. They are wrong, plain and simple, but it's all part of their publicity hype. They paid big money for the rights to the AA-12 and to update it and they were desperate to recover their costs.
This also had them claiming it was the world's deadliest shotgun - not in the middle of a fumbled mag change it ain't...

I agree with you 100 percent on what you said about the major probelm being how slow the magazine loads are. My USAS-12 has the same damn design feed and the same probelm. It's a great shotgun, but I would not want to have to do a magazine change with someone shooting at me. I used to have a Saiga 12 whichs loads like a AK, but is much slower and cumbersome to reload compared to the rifle. I'm not sure why they didn't design it with a actual mag well.
I always roll my eyes when I hear the "dosen't need to be cleaned or lubricated" fairytale.

[LAW0306]

It means the AA-12 is a gimic. Pro's use M590's or 870P's if you want a pump and some type of benenlli is you want a semi auto. AA-12 is a munchkin mall ninja gun.

[Legbreaker]

What it means is that is nothing more than your opinion and based on the limited selection of weapons you personally have used.
Can you honestly say you've ever even touched an AA-12, SPAS-15, HK-512, TOZ-194, RO-5?

I think not....

I know I haven't handled more than four shotguns in my entire life and that certainly doesn't make me an expert on weapons I havent' even laid eyes on outside of the internet. I for one am willing to take all designs on face value, apply some logic, and listen to the reports form those who actually have used the things before dismissing them out of hand in favour of the one weapon which was issued to me by the military and which just so happens to fit a fairly rigid set of parameters/political expediancy.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

What it means is that is nothing more than your opinion and based on the limited selection of weapons you personally have used.
Can you honestly say you've ever even touched an AA-12, SPAS-15, HK-512, TOZ-194, RO-5?

I think not....

Oh good god, not again with you two...

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by waiting4something

I agree with you 100 percent on what you said about the major probelm being how slow the magazine loads are. My USAS-12 has the same damn design feed and the same probelm. It's a great shotgun, but I would not want to have to do a magazine change with someone shooting at me. I used to have a Saiga 12 whichs loads like a AK, but is much slower and cumbersome to reload compared to the rifle. I'm not sure why they didn't design it with a actual mag well.
I always roll my eyes when I hear the "dosen't need to be cleaned or lubricated" fairytale.

You have a USAS-12... not that I'm jealous... much...
But onto the topic. The USAS-12 is an example of where the design concepts behind the AA-12 got it partly right. Both shotguns are the result of Max Atchisson's desire to increase shotgun firepower and while the USAS-12 is only broadly based on Atchisson's original AA-12, they at least managed to get away from the bad mag support/mag catch design of that weapon.

Like you, I am still surprised however, that they didn't put a proper magazine well on the weapon. I imagine it was to make the drums easier to manufacture or fit to the weapon or something like that but when you've got a 20-rd drum of 12g attached to the weapon, I would have liked to see a proper magazine well to support the mag rather than the truncated well they went with.

[waiting4something]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

You have a USAS-12... not that I'm jealous... much...
But onto the topic. The USAS-12 is an example of where the design concepts behind the AA-12 got it partly right. Both shotguns are the result of Max Atchisson's desire to increase shotgun firepower and while the USAS-12 is only broadly based on Atchisson's original AA-12, they at least managed to get away from the bad mag support/mag catch design of that weapon.

Like you, I am still surprised however, that they didn't put a proper magazine well on the weapon. I imagine it was to make the drums easier to manufacture or fit to the weapon or something like that but when you've got a 20-rd drum of 12g attached to the weapon, I would have liked to see a proper magazine well to support the mag rather than the truncated well they went with.

The lack of a decent magazine well just blows my mind. It shows how the magazine fed shotgun development has not improved since the 1970's. When I saw the new AA-12 having the same feed design I just knew this gun was going nowhere. The combat shotgun really is a gun without much change through the years. Its' been over a hundred years and we still have the tube magazine. we just can't seem to get past that point. I don't think with a limited capacity it matters that much if the shotgun is semi or pump. Both have strengths and weakness, and they will both run dry faster then you could want.

[Ronin]

Hi new guy here. While I have opinions about the AA-12. I think I will stay away from that flame war. Anyways, I remember reading somewhere (Cant remember where for the life of me.) that the USAS is very picky about ammo. If you run anything but 2, 3/4 remmington 00 buck in it. It jams up like a son of gun. Just some food for thought.