Alaska and the Soviet Invasion (T2k)

[Legbreaker]

2.x uses the same unit histories as 1.0.

Originally Posted by Raellus

I feel pretty much the same way about this scenario as Web. I'd love for someone to flesh out the scenario and make it more plausible.

Taking what others have said about the distances and lack of infrastructure in the region, it seems to me the only way it could possibly work is after the US and Canadian naval forces have been removed from play. Transportation and supply lines would have to be primarily by sea and utilise whatever few merchant ships are still floating. Once you move away from the coast, both sides would start running into serious logistic problems.

Perhaps it's this reliance on seaborne logistics which proved the Soviet's undoing? Once the nukes fell and the ports were glowing (on both sides) it may have become almost impossible for supplies and reinforcementsto be brought in.

Can anyone tell us when the Soviet units first stepped foot on Alaskan soil?

[Webstral]

It seems that the Soviets first crossed the Bering Strait during the summer of 1997. I want to say July. US forces had been ranging onto the Soviet side until the nuclear exchange began. Then the Soviets pushed across the Strait while the weather was good, landing first in or around Nome and moving east and southeast.

An ugly thought: if the pipeline was out due to nuking, the US might have decided to turn the tables on the Soviet thinking. The Soviets (probably) invaded Alaska to divert American resources from other theaters. What if the American leadership decided to defend Alaska with just enough guys to keep several Soviet divisions and Soviet logistics diverted. A look at the numbers of Soviet troops in Alaska in July 2000 shows that the Soviets had a lot more uniformed personnel committed. If the oil could not be quickly made to flow again, then Alaska might have been seen as a bear trap that would cause the Soviets to divert resources that might otherwise go to another theater.

[HorseSoldier]

There are a couple crazy issues with the Soviet invasion of Alaska, mostly relating, I think, to the GDW authors not really grasping either the size of the AK/Yukon/British Columbia area or the difficulty in sustaining any sort of logistics across those distances given a very minimal road network.

The oddest thing is that from the unit histories, it sounds like the Soviets came directly across the strait and made their first landings at Nome, then proceeded overland to Fairbanks. I honestly just don't see how this works. There's no roads, and the distance and terrain are such that even if done in the dead of winter to rely on frozen rivers would have honestly most likely killed more Soviet AFVs from simple wear and tear attrition than X Corps and the Canadians ever did on the battlefield.

Various other subsequent manuevers are equally improbable (offensives down through Juneau and into Canadian territory, especially).

Perhaps it's this reliance on seaborne logistics which proved the Soviet's undoing? Once the nukes fell and the ports were glowing (on both sides) it may have become almost impossible for supplies and reinforcementsto be brought in.

A one megaton strike on Elmendorf AFB would most likely not only irradiate but cause extensive damage to the port of Anchorage, which seems to be the hub for Soviet forces remaining in Alaska circa 2000. The two are very close to one another, though the terrain the port sits in *might* protect it some from blast and overpressure from a nuke, depending on where exactly on Elmendorf it popped.

There's an alternate port at Whittier (built in secret during WW2), but no indication that any Soviet forces are anywhere near there, as it's about 100 km south east of Anchorage and the Soviet forces are mostly north of Anchorage up in the Mat-Su Valley (likely facing Sarah Palin's crack irregular militia or crack smoking irregular militia, depending on your politics ). And Whittier is on the far side of a 4 km long tunnel that any defenders could drop pretty effortlessly, and renders it pretty vulnerable to commando actions (cue daring group of PCs . . .).

Assuming the Soviets had pretty much free reign in the Pacific due to some serious misfortunes for the USN and other NATO/Allied naval forces, the likeliest invasion route would be to do an Inchon/Normandy gig at Anchorage with a feint at Valdez aimed at destroying the terminal end of the pipeline. Then you'd want to roll up the only two highways going up out of the Mat-Su Valley to launch pincers at X Corps in the Fairbanks/Ft Greely area. Getting the right wing to Glenallen and Tok would cut off anyone falling back from Valdez (Glenallen) and any vehicle traffic coming in from Canada (Tok).

Once you've got Tok out of the equation, and Anchorage occupied, Fairbanks is pretty much isolated by anything but aerial resupply. It would still have access to oil from the pipeline, unless it was cut north of the city, and there's a small refinery in the area that could keep X Corps plussed up on fuel, but everything else is pretty sketchy. If the .sovs can get up the road to the Greely area they can capture the only remotely significant agricultural area X Corps could be feeding itself and the civilian population from, and then it would probably be better to do more of a seige than an assault on Fairbanks.

[Mohoender]

What I'm going to write does work if the Soviets effectively land in Alaska with their small offensive spearheaded by arctic brigades.

First thing, recall that the entire Kamchatka Peninsula was, then, military ground and absolutely forbidden to all but soldiers. Then, USSR had a special body set up in 1932 only to run traffic through the artic. Since the soviet era, military installations and harbors up there had been dismantled and left to rot but they were substantial up to the early 1990's. If one place still holds some supplies it is it.

Oil might have been a problem but I would expect the Soviets to have planned a move similar to the one imagined by Von Rundstedt in the Ardennes fifty years before. Soviet units would be running low on gas with their first goal being to run for US oil supplies. Elmensdorf ASB had been targetted but that leaves the North Pole and Prudhoe Bay refineries intact with probable reserves. May be even growing ones since the pipeline might have been cut

Second, the best time for the Soviets to attack could be when the Ice is still there but getting thinner or slowly comming back. Strangelly I would expect early fall more than summer. The logical landing site for USSR could be Barrow and Prudhoe Bay (with its refinery), travelling through the Northern Seaway (a sea route they are about the only one to know by heart, they used extensively for decades and practiced for centuries) and invading Alaska from the arctic seaports of Pevek with a supply line going through Dikson and Tiksi. Then, and only then, would they push South toward Anchorage. However, when they arrive there, I doubt the northern refineries to be still intact.

USSR had 9 (may be 10) working nulcear icebreakers, as many conventional heavy duty ones and several dozens of smaller patrol icebreakers belonging to KGB under its border services. Most carried some types of weaponries or were design to carry them and all were powerfull enough to open the way for the remaining landing ships and cargo. Moreover, there is no reason to have all these ships destroyed as they should have been moved out of the main harbors to the major Soviet arctic seaports. Moreover, The NATO fleet has been shaterred around Murmansk and the Arctic remain Soviet almost exclusive territory.

Meanwhile, US and Canadian navies couldn't match (and I think they still can't do) the Soviet Arctic Fleet. Morevoer, with surviving US ships occupied further South, the way is quite cleared. In addition, the Soviets would use LCAC and probably a few Orlyonoks plus aircrafts to drop spearheading forces. Of course, I have not doubt that what is left of US-Canadian command has thought that it could happen but they can have underestimated the immediate threat and with the chaos following the exchange they might have lacked the ressources to answer immediately. However, when the Soviets reach Juneau they have gathered what was needed to stop Soviet progression. Again, outside of the few arctic and naval brigades, their troops are all composed of second and third line units.

At last, as soon as full summer comes with the sealane easily reached, I doubt that Soviet ships can maintain a regular flow of supplies or troops. When everything achieves to crumble, some icebreakers might still be there, most arctic seaports might still be functional but the Kremlin has ceased to have the material means and the authority to keep them running.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

There are a couple crazy issues with the Soviet invasion of Alaska, mostly relating, I think, to the GDW authors not really grasping either the size of the AK/Yukon/British Columbia area or the difficulty in sustaining any sort of logistics across those distances given a very minimal road network.

I agree but this is still tiny if compared to the size of Russian Siberia. The Soviets have managed to supply the most remote parts of Siberia for years without roads. Moreover, they fail in both British Columbia and Yukon.

Nome could be an option but why when its easier to go to Prudhoe Bay? Going through the Chukchi Sea would be easier for the Soviets and more difficult to defend for US given their already overstretched lines of defense. Then, after taking Prudhoe Bay, you simply drive south and don't even care about Nome... You take Barrow to secure your supply line.

To supply all this, apart from their arctic fleet, they would probably using the river networks in Siberia itself and a large number of reindeer (the only number I have found was 1.5 million semi-domestic reindeer by 1999 after a ten years decline). I'm sure there will plenty of objections to this but damn, in a game that is planty of fun entertaining situation.

I would simply love to see a US Spec Ops born in Texas riding a reindeer its unit had capture from Soviet troops in Alaska.

[rcaf_777]

Forgot the Soveit Invassion how about a Canadian Invasion, Canada unhappy about the damage caused by what they see as US war they invade Alaska and cut the oil flow

[Schone23666]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

Forgot the Soveit Invassion how about a Canadian Invasion, Canada unhappy about the damage caused by what they see as US war they invade Alaska and cut the oil flow

This makes me think of a favorite quote of mine from Otto Von Bismarck: "The Americans have conspired to be surrounded on two sides by weak neighbors, and on the other two sides....by FISH!"

That idea almost sounds amusing, LOL...but in all seriousness? Highly unlikely.

[Fusilier]

Originally Posted by Schone23666

"The Americans have conspired to be surrounded on two sides by weak neighbors, and on the other two sides....by FISH!"

I don't get it.

[Schone23666]

Originally Posted by Fusilier

I don't get it.

Otto von Bismarck, the "Iron Chancellor" who was the first Chancellor of the German Empire from 1871 to 1890, was commenting on how the United States of America is bordered on two sides by the Canadians and Mexicans, who were seen to be weak on the international stage, AT THAT TIME. The other two sides that border the United States are the Atlantic and the Pacific oceans, obviously.

Bismarck was basically commenting (unless I'm wrong) that unlike Germany which had a series of neighbors to either dislike or worry about (France, Russia, Poland, the British Empire, the Balkans, etc. etc.) the Americans only really needed to worry about (if at all) the Canadians, the Mexicans, and lots of fish.

Bismarck was also quoted (though this may not be the exact phrasing) as saying, "The next great war in Europe will be over some damned silly thing in the Balkans". Turns out, unfortunately, he was right about that one.