Am I opening a can of worms here? I think I am...M113...

[natehale1971]

In my setting the M113 was phased out by the Armed forces due to the light armor issues. In the light infantry role, the US Army was able to get the German designed Wesiel 2 AWC (the APC version is like a mini-bradley). I have been considering the possibility of a lisence built version being produced for use by the US Armed Forces at factories in the United States.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by natehale1971

i see... the bad thing is, the biggest allies i see getting the M113s that were not sold/given to the police, state guard and territorial guard during the years before the Euro-Soviet War would have been the PRC and Mexico in my altered timeline.

You mean the ROC aka Taiwan right? Do they use the M113? Mexico likely does, however their is no Political capital to make foisting them off onto unstable Allies or to woo one away from the other side. Their is a point to refurbishing your own stuff in Depot too. All that Armor out there is usually on loan if it is a display, the DoD still owns it. Unless it was designated surplus / scrapped because these are not being fielded any more.

So I can see them going to South Africa to woo them away from the Soviet sphere and keep the Cape open to NATO see traffic. To the Phillipines our old Friends and Allies in the South Pacific, to Portugal for the Azores Airfields, to Israel to counter the Soviets in Syria, to bolster Turkey as it shares borders with the USSR. To Norway for the same reason. To the FRG to bolster their second echelon units, and the same with Belgium, Denmark, The Netherlands, Luxembourg.

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Turning one into a mortar carrier or that level of alteration is possible, given the right tools and materials. Not sure how easy that would be in T2K when every last existing hull is likely to be refurbished rather than altered. Replacing old parts is much simpler than cutting and shutting...

Exactly, faster to remove and replace, then to cut and fabricate. May or May not be improved to a new model, parts and compatibility being an issue.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by natehale1971

In my setting the M113 was phased out by the Armed forces due to the light armor issues. In the light infantry role, the US Army was able to get the German designed Wesiel 2 AWC (the APC version is like a mini-bradley). I have been considering the possibility of a lisence built version being produced for use by the US Armed Forces at factories in the United States.

No more armor than the M113 and less dismounts. The Wiesel is for Airborne / Airmobile forces.

Light Infantry walks to work. Mechanized rides.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Fusilier

I'll wager the M113 parts are very easy to produce. When I was in Vietnam I saw countless old war era M113s still being used by the military and they wouldn't have been ordering replacement parts from the USA over these last few decades.

One of our NATO allies could well be selling them parts, or even Israel with the US giving it a blind eye. We are wooing the Viets now for business, and as Allies against Red China.

[Fusilier]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

One of our NATO allies could well be selling them parts, or even Israel with the US giving it a blind eye. We are wooing the Viets now for business, and as Allies against Red China.

Very possible.

[natehale1971]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

You mean the ROC aka Taiwan right? Do they use the M113? Mexico likely does, however their is no Political capital to make foisting them off onto unstable Allies or to woo one away from the other side. Their is a point to refurbishing your own stuff in Depot too. All that Armor out there is usually on loan if it is a display, the DoD still owns it. Unless it was designated surplus / scrapped because these are not being fielded any more.

I mean the Peoples Republic of China... with all the arms sales they described in the rulebooks after the start of the Sino-Soviet War, the decommissioned M113's could easily have been part of that lend-lease to the People's Republic to fight the Soviets.

In my setting the South African's were ending apartheid and thus being brought into the NATO allies category to stand against the ever growing Congo Pact.

I hadn't thought about the Phillipines and the Republic of China (Taiwan) getting them... thanks!

So I can see them going to South Africa to woo them away from the Soviet sphere and keep the Cape open to NATO see traffic. To the Phillipines our old Friends and Allies in the South Pacific, to Portugal for the Azores Airfields, to Israel to counter the Soviets in Syria, to bolster Turkey as it shares borders with the USSR. To Norway for the same reason. To the FRG to bolster their second echelon units, and the same with Belgium, Denmark, The Netherlands, Luxembourg.

I can see that a well... i was thinking of other locally produced designs being produced for the moderization wave that was adopted after the lessons of Desert Storm that saw improvements and inovations that were adopted a decade ealier than we saw IRL.

Such as the mini-articles on body armor and afew other things that i've been working on.

[ArmySGT.]

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m113.htm

[natehale1971]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m113.htm

this is the first thing i saw on that page...

The M113A1, informally known as the Gavin, is a lightly armoured full tracked air transportable personnel carrier designed to carry personnel and certain types of cargo. The M113-family was developed from M59 and M75 by Ford and Kaiser Aluminium and Chemical Co. in the late 1950�s. The vehicle is capable of: amphibious operations in streams and lakes; extended cross country travel over rough terrain; and high speed operation on improved roads and highways.

[Legbreaker]

They obviously need to be slapped around until they remove that damn phrase!
It's clear they simply haven't done proper research to note it's a name that's come from the worlds greatest nutjob!

Edit: I've just emailed fas.org to do just that!

[copeab]

Originally Posted by natehale1971

In your world maybe... I don't see something like that happening. New America yes. MilGov... Not so much, they'd see the person who has it as either knowing how to operate or use it. And a resource they would want to use.

And not let the other side have a chance to use him.

The steps for MilGov and CivGov would likely be:

1) Nice offer
2) Threatening offer
3) Bullet to the head

It's a pragmatic matter of survival and neither side can let a valuable resource fall into the other's hands.

I see CivGov and MilGov as both evil, just in slightly different ways.

[natehale1971]

Originally Posted by copeab

And not let the other side have a chance to use him.

The steps for MilGov and CivGov would likely be:

1) Nice offer
2) Threatening offer
3) Bullet to the head

It's a pragmatic matter of survival and neither side can let a valuable resource fall into the other's hands.

I see CivGov and MilGov as both evil, just in slightly different ways.

Like i said... in your world maybe.

[Legbreaker]

Well, that was a wasted effort, the email address for the fas.org admin is bogus.
I wonder if Sparks is behind fas as well...?

[natehale1971]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Well, that was a wasted effort, the email address for the fas.org admin is bogus.
I wonder if Sparks is behind fas as well...?

I don't think so...

[Legbreaker]

The amount of places that nut shows up, it wouldn't be a big suprise though...

[natehale1971]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

The amount of places that nut shows up, it wouldn't be a big suprise though...

True.. but FAS has been around for a long time. and has alot of things that doesn't really seem like something he'd write.

[ArmySGT.]

Hmm didn't read through as I was skimming for end users.

Informally known as.............. well it is ........ sort of true. Theres a whackjob and a few cultists, as well as some that don't know better that call it that.

[natehale1971]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Hmm didn't read through as I was skimming for end users.

Informally known as.............. well it is ........ sort of true. Theres a whackjob and a few cultists, as well as some that don't know better that call it that.

I was using it as well... namely because of articles like the one i had originally found on FAS and another site that is like it, but i lost the url address when my old computer died. It had official TOE of the various army units from Corps to company, but i couldn't understand what i was reading and why i came up with the way i write things up.

[ArmySGT.]

You want the MTOE for units to write them up as canon?

Every sort of Combat Arms unit has a company level FM, and Battalion level FM, Regimental (Cav), and Brigade.

Service Units have Company, Battalion level, and Brigade.

So in the appropriate FMs you can find out manpower, major end items and number, authorized weapons, and slice elements.

Example Fm 7-8 Infantry Rifle Platoon and Squad.

[ArmySGT.]

FM 100 The Army

[natehale1971]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

FM 100 The Army

That's just it... I don't have a means to gain access to the FM anymore.

[Legbreaker]

Try here to start with....
http://www.enlisted.info/field-manuals/

[natehale1971]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Try here to start with....
http://www.enlisted.info/field-manuals/

Thank you! Thank You! Thank You!

[Legbreaker]

Google is your friend for US field manuals.
Try finding an Australian military PAM online though...

[natehale1971]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Google is your friend for US field manuals.
Try finding an Australian military PAM online though...

are there any british field manuals for infantry platoon and company operations?

[natehale1971]

I know this is going to be Off-Topic, but I've got a question about the Mobile Command Post armored vehicle... Just what are they? how are they used?

I've seen in movies where the Army has a tractor trailer truck turned into a mobile command vehicle, and I've seen Police departments use the same kind of setup for their field command posts during massive manhunts and the search and resuce operations. Are these the same thing as the specially built tracked command posts? I'm aving a problem seeing this because the commandpost looks so small.

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

You know if I remember correctly during WW2 the M4 was not officially known as the Sherman. I think it was the Brits that gave it that moniker. Actually they may have started the naming of Tanks. Silly Brits.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by Cpl. Kalkwarf

You know if I remember correctly during WW2 the M4 was not officially known as the Sherman. I think it was the Brits that gave it that moniker. Actually they may have started the naming of Tanks. Silly Brits.

Yep, the Brits named our tanks -- and aircraft* -- early on the war. I think the only US tanks named by the Americans in WWII were the M-24 Chaffee and M-26 Pershing. Not sure about the M-22 Locust.

*Some aircraft were named (and trademarked!) by the companies that built them before the war, for marketing purposes

[Sanjuro]

Actually they may have started the naming of Tanks. Silly Brits.

To be fair, we were also the ones who named them Tanks in the first place!

[Panther Al]

Bah... Tank. Panzer is sooooo much better.

[perardua]

Originally Posted by natehale1971

are there any british field manuals for infantry platoon and company operations?

Yes, PAMs (the British equivalent of a field manual) exist. However, they are not generally available to the public, being as they are Restricted.