Need your help/advice on optics , supressors and so on!

[B.T.]

Oh no, it's that old optics thing again.

But I am really uncertain about several facts concerning the variants of the M16 in the T2k universe.

That's what I think is correct:
The standard rifle for all the US combat troops is the M16A2. I assume, a small contingent of M4 carbines has been issued. The majority is of the first production type, with the new handguard.
Another model would be the M4 or M4A1 MWS, the one with the rails.
The SOPMOD block 1 is in use, but only in very limited numbers.

I've read several things about the M16A3: Now, what is it? Is it a M16A2 variant with the full-auto option but with a fixed rear-sight/carrying handle, or is a flat top?

Next question: When have the M16 MWS variants been fielded? Or when were the rails for the long barrel rifle variants put into production or use?

I am well aware, that a lot more variants would be in use, especially the M16A2 carbine variants (M-733, M-723, maxbe even older XM-177En). Civilian versions will also be encountered.

How easy (or not) would it be, to equip the older versions with the A1-style handguards with the parts of the SOPMOD kits?
Would all the M4 variants be flat-tops?

I know, it is a very complicated issue, so I could really use a little help on this.

Any constructive income is welcome!

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by B.T.

Oh no, it's that old optics thing again.

But I am really uncertain about several facts concerning the variants of the M16 in the T2k universe.

That's what I think is correct:
The standard rifle for all the US combat troops is the M16A2. I assume, a small contingent of M4 carbines has been issued. The majority is of the first production type, with the new handguard.
Another model would be the M4 or M4A1 MWS, the one with the rails.
The SOPMOD block 1 is in use, but only in very limited numbers.

I've read several things about the M16A3: Now, what is it? Is it a M16A2 variant with the full-auto option but with a fixed rear-sight/carrying handle, or is a flat top?

Next question: When have the M16 MWS variants been fielded? Or when were the rails for the long barrel rifle variants put into production or use?

I am well aware, that a lot more variants would be in use, especially the M16A2 carbine variants (M-733, M-723, maxbe even older XM-177En). Civilian versions will also be encountered.

How easy (or not) would it be, to equip the older versions with the A1-style handguards with the parts of the SOPMOD kits?
Would all the M4 variants be flat-tops?

I know, it is a very complicated issue, so I could really use a little help on this.

Any constructive income is welcome!

The M16A3 is the M16A2 with a flattop receiver, topped by a MIL-STD-1913
rail. The front sight is retained; a BUIS (Backup Iron Sight) can be attached to the receiver rail, and the BUIS for the M16A3 isn't much different from that of the M16A2 in function. Some BUISs fold, allowing the shooter to keep it on his rifle even when optics are attached. The M16A3 uses the 3-round burst setting of the M16A2.

The M16A4 is the M16A3 with full-auto capability instead of the 3-round burst setting.

There is also an AR-15A3, which is the same as the M16A3 except that it can be used only in the semiautomatic mode, and has been designed to be virtually impossible to be converted to automatic fire. (The AR-15A2 is also designed to be close to impossible to convert to automatic fire.)

In either case, a standard rear sight/carrying handle can be attached to the receiver rail.

The standard M4 is basically a shrunken M16A2. M4 handguards cannot be used on an M16 or AR15 series and vice-versa. The M4A1 is the M4 equivalent of the M16A4. I've heard of an M4A2, but I don't remember offhand what its characteristics are. A civilian version of the M4 exists (going by the same name), but it has a 16-inch barrel as opposed to the 14.5-inch barrel of a military M4.

The SOPMOD kit was originally designed specifically for the M-4 series, but SOPMOD kits have since been developed for the M16A3 and M16A4. These have four-point MIL-STD-1913 rails on the handguards. The SOPMOD handguards can also be used with the M16A2 (or M16A1, M16, or AR-15 series for that matter). A plethora of accessories and optics have been designed for use with an M16 series rifle with SOPMOD rails.

M16-series rifles (and AR-15s and AR-15A1s) cannot have their handguards fitted with the SOPMOD kit, but their handguards can be replaced with the handguards of the M16A3/A4 or handguards with SOPMOD rails. Takes all of 30 seconds if you're taking your time. A good gunsmith can also take off the carrying handle of earlier M16s and AR-15s, leaving it flat; these have been fitted with Weaver rails, MIL-STD-1913 rails, drilling and tapping for scope bases, or special solutions for specific bases and optics (primarily early in the development of the M16/AR-15 series when the M16A3/A4/M4A1/AR-15A3 were not yet available). Adapters also exist to mount optics directly on the carrying handle of earlier rifles, but most shooters felt that this was a bad solution, leading to instability and bad aiming due to inadequate cheek weld and leaving them a little more vulnerable since they had to raise their head a little higher to use the optics.

The sliding stock of the M4 can be attached to M16/AR-15 series rifles.

The M16/AR-15/M4 series is perhaps the most copied rifle in the world; numerous clones exist, many of which have different rail solutions, sight solutions, barrel lengths, or items like muzzle brakes or shooter-removable flash suppressors or muzzle brakes that allow the attachment of suppressors. True silencers for the M16/M4/AR-15 are relatively rare, since they exact a serious penalty on the round's range and accuracy (particular when using a subsonic round). The M16 series is known to not function efficiently with less than a 10-inch barrel (though the Israelis, for a short time, used a CAR-16 with the barrel cut down to 9 inches). This is a problem with the Stoner direct gas impingement system and not the round. When they are used with less than a 14.5-inch barrel, muzzle blast and flash become progressively more massive, which is why many such shortened rifles have muzzle brake/flash suppressor combinations, massive muzzle brakes, or suppressors.

I'm willing to bet that someone would have modified the M16A1, M16A2, and M4 to the M16A3/A4 or M4A1 standard in the T2K timeline, whether informally in small batches or on a limited production basis (assuming they don't actually exist in T2K in the first place).

I'd like to offer you constructive income, but I could use some constructive income myself...(yes, I do know that was a mistype, but it was a funny mistype.)

[B.T.]

Paul, thanks a lot!

I've had a mistyping in my earlier post by myself. I was aware that the handguards of the carbine versions do not fit to the full length rifles. I was thinking about the handguards with a round cross-section (In service since the Vietnam era, right?).

I personally would like to offer the player characters the chance to get a SOPMOD model in their hands, just because of the possibility to fix several optics and so forth.

I know that there has been a small telescopic rifle sight, that can be mounted on the carrying handle of the earlier M16/AR15 rifles. But I think the newer types of optics, especially red dots and reflex types, or the ACOGs, would be a very welcomed option.

Do you know, since when the rails for the M16A3/A4 exist IRL?

You would say, there is no room for the M4 SOPMODs in the original T2k? Is this true even for the Ver2.n?

Edit: Ouch, the "constructive income" was my mistyping anyway. But if it was good for your amusement, I'm fine with that

[bobcat]

there are optics that attatch to the equipment carrying handle of an M16A2 or Car-15 variant(pre M4). the first ones that come to mind being the ACOG in service since around 1990 in specialist units, and the colt sporter scope in service almost as long as the M16. both of these are 4x scopesdesigned to mount on the equipment carry handle by default. and there have been thousands of adapters to put M1913 rails on top of the carry handle since at least the mid 80's. so private joes snuffy very well might have put a 10x scope on his rifle to be "tacticool"(or just cause the only way he can qualify on the range is to cheat)

i know many soldiers who have used these optics(and really $30 for a better range card was the best investment of my career)

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by bobcat

there are optics that attatch to the equipment carrying handle of an M16A2 or Car-15 variant(pre M4). the first ones that come to mind being the ACOG in service since around 1990 in specialist units, and the colt sporter scope in service almost as long as the M16. both of these are 4x scopesdesigned to mount on the equipment carry handle by default. and there have been thousands of adapters to put M1913 rails on top of the carry handle since at least the mid 80's. so private joes snuffy very well might have put a 10x scope on his rifle to be "tacticool"(or just cause the only way he can qualify on the range is to cheat)

i know many soldiers who have used these optics(and really $30 for a better range card was the best investment of my career)

I knew some guys in the Aussie Army about 15 years ago who took a small block of metal and shaped it like the mount of the AN/PVS2. On the bottom was a screw just like that used to hold the PVS2 onto the M16A1 carry handle.
The top of the metal block had been tapped to allow standard civvy ring mounts for telescopic sights to be mounted. Took them a couple of days to sort out the "how and what" and then about an hour in a workshop to make it.

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

The M16A3 is the M16A2 with a flattop receiver, topped by a MIL-STD-1913
rail. The front sight is retained; a BUIS (Backup Iron Sight) can be attached to the receiver rail, and the BUIS for the M16A3 isn't much different from that of the M16A2 in function. Some BUISs fold, allowing the shooter to keep it on his rifle even when optics are attached. The M16A3 uses the 3-round burst setting of the M16A2.

The M16A4 is the M16A3 with full-auto capability instead of the 3-round burst setting.

One minor correction, you have the versions reversed. The A3 is fully-automatic, the A4 is limited to 3-round bursts.

http://www.armyproperty.com/Equipment-Info/M16A3-A4.htm

The standard M4 is basically a shrunken M16A2. M4 handguards cannot be used on an M16 or AR15 series and vice-versa. The M4A1 is the M4 equivalent of the M16A4. I've heard of an M4A2, but I don't remember offhand what its characteristics are. A civilian version of the M4 exists (going by the same name), but it has a 16-inch barrel as opposed to the 14.5-inch barrel of a military M4.

Also, not entirely accurate. My Colt LE6920 has a 14.5" barrel from the factory. Even the newer 694- series has an available 14.5" barrel. I think it's the 6944 or 6945, I don't remember which.

[Schone23666]

Originally Posted by Eddie

One minor correction, you have the versions reversed. The A3 is fully-automatic, the A4 is limited to 3-round bursts.

http://www.armyproperty.com/Equipment-Info/M16A3-A4.htm



Also, not entirely accurate. My Colt LE6920 has a 14.5" barrel from the factory. Even the newer 694- series has an available 14.5" barrel. I think it's the 6944 or 6945, I don't remember which.

How'd you manage that? I thought anything less than 16 inches for a carbine or rifle in civilian hands was illegal, or does that vary in some states, or perhaps you have to have an additional license and fees?

Personally, I think the whole "16 inch rule" for civilian rifles is BS, but that's me.

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by Schone23666

How'd you manage that? I thought anything less than 16 inches for a carbine or rifle in civilian hands was illegal, or does that vary in some states, or perhaps you have to have an additional license and fees?

No, I don't think it varies by state. At least, not that I know of. But there are exemptions and loopholes with the additional license and fees. For instance, mine has the restricted stamp for Military/Law Enforcement on the side. I have a Georgia Firearms License and am active duty military. Georgia has very lax gun laws where active duty military personnel are concerned. For instance, I really didn't need to get the firearms license, under Georgia law I'm allowed to carry as long as I have my military ID card.

Anyone (who can legally buy a firearm) can buy it with a $200 tax and registration with the BATFE, though, civilian or military.

My point though, was that they exist and are on the market and in civilian gun shops so could be encountered in game.

[Schone23666]

Originally Posted by Eddie

No, I don't think it varies by state. At least, not that I know of. But there are exemptions and loopholes with the additional license and fees. For instance, mine has the restricted stamp for Military/Law Enforcement on the side. I have a Georgia Firearms License and am active duty military. Georgia has very lax gun laws where active duty military personnel are concerned. For instance, I really didn't need to get the firearms license, under Georgia law I'm allowed to carry as long as I have my military ID card.

Anyone (who can legally buy a firearm) can buy it with a $200 tax and registration with the BATFE, though, civilian or military.

My point though, was that they exist and are on the market and in civilian gun shops so could be encountered in game.

Ah, that makes much more sense, thanks.

And you'd be surprised what you'll find not so much in gun shops, but in more places that are a bit off the beaten trail, so to speak around here, or maybe not.

I still think Yamamoto said it best, "You cannot invade the mainland United States, there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."

[B.T.]

This whole thing makes me mad! The more you know, the more questions arise

The AN/PEQ-2 would be in service. Is it right, that it only produces an infrared beam (More precise: 2 different, but still infrared beams, one narrow, one wide!)?
That means, it could only be used during nighttime and only by operators, wearing IR-goggles.
Did some kind of LAD exist, that could switch to laser (projecting a red dot to the target) or infrared laser?

And: If the operator wears IR-goggles, would an attached ACOG interfere with proper handling of the rifle?

And some more: As far as I know, it is impossible to use IR-goggles and some kind of sniper scope at the same time, right?

Err ... Thanks in advance!

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Schone23666

I still think Yamamoto said it best, "You cannot invade the mainland United States, there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."

I like that line from the Soviet commander in Red Star, Lone Star: "The mosquitoes carry pistols."