Canon module omissions - RDF module

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Olefin

ammo for this group may not be an issue - the US had large stocks in the area as did the Saudis so they may actually be still very well equipped - I can see, for instance, MilGov sending the Corpus Christi there after she drops off the Soviet scientists back in the US and getting herself a fresh loadout of Harpoons and torpedoes.

How many years of war has there been again?
Didn't the manufacturing facilities around the world get pretty much wiped out in the nuke strikes of 1997 and 1998?
No, there's no way in the universe I can believe there's anything like enough ammo for the ships and units in the area, let alone enough to send elsewhere!

[Webstral]

On the subject of the Rangers, I think there are a couple of possibilities for why a battalion doesn’t end up in Europe or Korea. Once the balloon goes up in Germany, there’s a good 6-7 weeks for the US to move forces overseas. This is plenty of time for the Rangers to go in by air if that’s the decision. They don’t, though. It seems to me that someone thinks the Rangers will be more useful someplace else.

My first line unit NCO while I was on active duty at the beginning of the 1990’s told me that the real purpose of the Rangers was to seize an airfield so the 82nd could go in. If the Rangers did nothing else, they’ve had paid their way by taking the airfield and relieving the 82nd of the necessity of jumping. He had just come off a 3-year stint as the senior enlisted chemical warfare guy at the regimental HQ. He requested a mech slot at Carson because he was a crispy critter after 3 years and thought he’d like to see his family again. Anyway, such observations about the Rangers have to be taken with a grain of salt, but they provide some interesting insight into how the Rangers might get used at the beginning of WW3.

Once the Germans and the Soviets started fighting, the Soviets probably put pressure on their clients to mobilize and put pressure on the Western Allies. A while ago, I wrote a piece designed to integrate Operation Desert Storm into the v1 chronology. If Iraq assembled new forces to go after Kuwait again, this would put additional pressure on CENTCOM. Of course, we’d have to make some adjustments to events in Iran or at least acknowledge that Iran never softened its attitude towards the US.

By the time might have come to send the Rangers forward, the relative density of the European and Korean battlefields might have called into question the cost-benefit ratio of using a Ranger battalion for raiding in either theater. In the Gulf, on the other hand, lower densities might have made using the Rangers and the 82nd in airmobile operations much more palatable. Also, since the heavy gear going to Europe was consuming the transport that would have been bringing the heavy metal to the Gulf, it may be that CENTCOM was offered the full regiment as a sop.

[manunancy]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

How many years of war has there been again?
Didn't the manufacturing facilities around the world get pretty much wiped out in the nuke strikes of 1997 and 1998?
No, there's no way in the universe I can believe there's anything like enough ammo for the ships and units in the area, let alone enough to send elsewhere!

I'm not familiar with teh timeline to tell for sure, but would it be possible to have a shortage of ships nearby to either use or haul out the hardware ? In such a case it may well have laid there until something able to use it was sent there.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by manunancy

I'm not familiar with the timeline to tell for sure, but would it be possible to have a shortage of ships nearby to either use or haul out the hardware ? In such a case it may well have laid there until something able to use it was sent there.

Doubtful. I'm not a navy person, but my understanding is warships don't carry a huge amount of ammunition on board, but rely on fairly regular resupply from support ships (the John Hancock for example only carried about 475-500 rounds for it's 5" gun, and as far as I can see anywhere only the 8 Harpoon missiles loaded in the launchers - can't find much on the other systems).

With the lack of a resupply ship in the area (likely sunk by the Russians I'd think), the limited amount in the various warships is all they can count on for the duration. If there was one, you'd think it important enough to have been included in the OOB.

[Ironside]

Of course, all we know about the UK naval bases is that they weren't hit by weapons of 1MT and above. It certainly doesn't preclude them being hit by smaller weapons.

[Rainbow Six]

It's not impossible that the UK bases were hit with sub 1mt weapons, but certainly in the case of Portsmouth I think it's unlikely given the fact that it is the new UK Capital and is referred to on multiple occasions in the Survivor's Guide to the United Kingdom.

I’m no naval expert either, but I'm inclined to accept Webstral's theory that the RN had already suffered such heavy losses that the Soviets no longer viewed it as a threat to be be the most plausible explanation - there’s the quote about the last major naval fleet in the World being shattered by June 1997. Either that or they had already suffered heavy enough conventional damage to make nuking them unneccessary.

(Probably noteworthy that that quote specifically says “in the World”. One could use that as an argument in favour of the French Navy also having suffered significant losses, but it would then have to be extended to include all Navies. But we know that even after that point the French retain the capability to move a large force to the Middle East (and also combat troops to Canada, per Challenge #30), and patrol the English Channel and elsewhere - there are other references to the French Navy here and there, chiefly (I think) in the Last Submarine trilogy, e.g. page 48 of Med Cruise, which states “The French have come to view the Western Mediterranean as their own private Sea”.)

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

(Probably noteworthy that that quote specifically says “in the World”. One could use that as an argument in favour of the French Navy also having suffered significant losses, but it would then have to be extended to include all Navies. But we know that even after that point the French retain the capability to move a large force to the Middle East (and also combat troops to Canada, per Challenge #30), and patrol the English Channel and elsewhere - there are other references to the French Navy here and there, chiefly (I think) in the Last Submarine trilogy, e.g. page 48 of Med Cruise, which states “The French have come to view the Western Mediterranean as their own private Sea”.)

The French only have about 9,600 in the middle east (plus ship crews) arriving from the 24th August 1998, and I can only find notes regarding "military advisors" being in Quebec ("Both U.S. governments agreed that France was interfering in a Canadian regional issue and said that France should remove its advisors from Quebec") as of late June 1999 (rumours confirmed by agents sent by Canadian West Military Government of "French combat troops and supplies entering Quebec).

With regard to the middle east troops, there's indications this occurred in stages. In Quebec, the few surviving agents may have only spotted the advisors who'd been there a while and consolidated into one place/unit.

It is therefore plausible the French only had a handful of suitable ships available, and whatever is going on in Quebec could be very low key and consist of just a company or so of troops and their supporting equipment.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

It is therefore plausible the French only had a handful of suitable ships available, and whatever is going on in Quebec could be very low key and consist of just a company or so of troops and their supporting equipment.

Fair point re: Quebec...I don't think there's anything that conclusively proves one way or the other how strong the French presence is - it's even suggested that the French ultimatum to the Canadian government could be a bluff

"The Canadian Federal Government, uncertain of whether or not the French could carry out their threat..."

It would probably also behoove the French to have the Canadians thinking that they (the French) were there in greater numbers than they actually were, something that could be achieved by supplying the Quebec forces with French uniforms and weapons - from a distance Canadian agents wouldn't know whether they were watching French combat troops or Quebec Separatists in French uniform.