v2.2 Vehicle Damage

[M-Type]

He actually did get it...unless all the pages spookily match.

But anyways, I can definitely follow that. The M203 I mentioned went into the cab and destroyed it, but the rest of the vehicle was fine. We'll chalk it up to luck and GM negligence

[Legbreaker]

The 2.0 and 2.2 vehicle rules are virtually the same thing. Really only a tweak here and there regarding vehicle stats, hit location tables, and radiological shielding.

[M-Type]

I tried the M203 vs Deuce and a Half with results exactly the same as your example. Then I decided to up the ante and try an Abrams vs BMP. For fun.

Heh.

It didn't end well for the BMP. 3 Major damage hits, Ammo, Ammo, Fuel. It's safe to say the crew DIDN'T make it either way.

I can only imagine the Abrams quickly ran out of fuel and was overrun :P

[Legbreaker]

Try an AT-4 or TOW or similar vs an Abrams and see what happens....
And remember that some Soviet vehicles carry missiles....

[M-Type]

I ran a quick 'scenario' with the same M1A1 (Fresh from victory) facing off against a T-80.

The M1A1 gunner crit-failed his roll, so the 'gun jammed'. The T-80 crew took this in stride.

It did not end well for the M1. Sadly.

[Legbreaker]

It's worth running the same exercise with both tanks in hull down positions. In other words any Hull hit is a miss (unless it's a turret hit first which is converted to hull damage on the table).
Something else to think about is requiring the vehicle commander to roll an Observation check before the vehicle can react to the enemy. A half blind commander (usually the only one with their head out and able to properly see the surroundings) is pretty much a death sentence for the vehicle.

Something else to consider is how hard it is for the commander (or other crew in a position to see) to spot infantry in cover/concealment. Although an anti-tank missile usually kicks up a hell of a backblast and is damn near impossible to avoid spotting, it usually only takes one hit to take out, or at least badly shake up the vehicle and it's crew. Added to that, AT teams usually work in pairs....

With regard to small arms against vehicles, it's almost impossible to do anything beyond a minor damage result to even an unarmoured vehicle, even if the more solid parts of the vehicle are missed (the AV1 listing on each softskin).

For HE type rounds of virtually any size, it's worth remembering that even if the shot misses the target, fragments may still hit and do have a Pen listing. Even it the shot hits, the target should still be subjected to fragments, possibly multiple fragments which could conceivably do more damage than the initial hit (for a smaller size round against an unarmoured vehicle at least).

[M-Type]

I'll definitely have to remember those details for the Tank game I was talking about on the other thread.

And after running some more similar tests with small arms, I'd agree with your results.

[James Langham]

Just bear in mind that in the Gulf, British and US tanks scored kills THROUGH the defensive berm. I suggest hull down should really just add to armour (probably a random amount due to the possible deflections, etc).

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

It's worth running the same exercise with both tanks in hull down positions. In other words any Hull hit is a miss (unless it's a turret hit first which is converted to hull damage on the table).
Something else to think about is requiring the vehicle commander to roll an Observation check before the vehicle can react to the enemy. A half blind commander (usually the only one with their head out and able to properly see the surroundings) is pretty much a death sentence for the vehicle.

Something else to consider is how hard it is for the commander (or other crew in a position to see) to spot infantry in cover/concealment. Although an anti-tank missile usually kicks up a hell of a backblast and is damn near impossible to avoid spotting, it usually only takes one hit to take out, or at least badly shake up the vehicle and it's crew. Added to that, AT teams usually work in pairs....

With regard to small arms against vehicles, it's almost impossible to do anything beyond a minor damage result to even an unarmoured vehicle, even if the more solid parts of the vehicle are missed (the AV1 listing on each softskin).

For HE type rounds of virtually any size, it's worth remembering that even if the shot misses the target, fragments may still hit and do have a Pen listing. Even it the shot hits, the target should still be subjected to fragments, possibly multiple fragments which could conceivably do more damage than the initial hit (for a smaller size round against an unarmoured vehicle at least).

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by M-Type

I ran a quick 'scenario' with the same M1A1 (Fresh from victory) facing off against a T-80.

The M1A1 gunner crit-failed his roll, so the 'gun jammed'. The T-80 crew took this in stride.

It did not end well for the M1. Sadly.

Good. Let's also figure out a good system for ramming vehicles into each other, people, cows, buildings, etc.

The reason I picked your quote is that it reminded me of a situation the players manning an M1 got into during a duel with a T-80. The T-80 came out from behind a building, less then 20 meters away. Anyway, they ended up in this corkscrewing dance of death, getting closer and closer to each other somehow not able to hit each other (except for the TCs, who were both shot by PCs and NPCs who were not part of the tank crews). Finally, the PCs in the M1 ended up side on to the T-80 with its gun muzzle centimeters away from the turret front of the T-80, of course couldn't miss at that range, and blew a sabot into the turret, with the T-80's turret exploding.

We were using miniatures, which really helped.

Shouldn't the M1 have been damaged somewhat by that?

[M-Type]

I'd feel like being that close would lead to the M1 taking some damage.