BBC, 1984 "Threads"

[Marc]

Bona nit!

Probably some of you (specially if you're living in the UK) have watched the 1984 BBC docudrama titled Threads, by Barry Hines. For my part, I've discovered it this past week, by chance, while lurking through the Internet. I think that the film has never been translated to Spanish language or showed in any Spanish TV channel, so I had no previous idea about its existence. Anyway, I've been able to found a quiet moment to watch it only two hours ago. And, what can I say? First, it has been impossible for me to allow myself a single moment of relax in the last two hours, finding myself holding my breath in more than one scene. Sometimes I've felt a powerful temptation to stop the film, shut down the computer and leave it for another occasion. In a few words, I still can feel a grim, nightmarish and disturbing after taste. Anyway, I cannot by recommend "Threads" to all of you, even if the nuclear war has not been the nightmare of your teenage years.

A video link:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...90698427111488


And , for more information, the intro from the Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threads

"Threads is a 1984 BBC television play depicting the effects of a nuclear war on the United Kingdom and its aftermath. Written by Barry Hines and directed by Mick Jackson, Threads was filmed in late 1983 and early 1984. The premise of Threads was to hypothesise the effects of a nuclear war on the United Kingdom after an exchange between the Soviet Union and the United States escalates to include the UK.
The story begins nearly three months before the attack, which happens on Thursday, 26 May, though the year is unspecified. We watch two families' reactions � the Kemps and the Becketts � first as fighting erupts and escalates, then as the UK places itself on a war footing, and eventually as strategic bombing commences. We then follow family members as they face and eventually die of the medical, economic, social, and environmental consequences of a nuclear war. The play concludes thirteen years after the attack, showing a shattered civilisation and children speaking broken English. Both the plot and the atmosphere of the play are extremely bleak."

[Targan]

Agreed, Threads is good. We had a discussion about it on the old forums once. The Aussies and Brits had seen it but I think many Americans had not. Worth a look.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Truly terrifying film. I saw it first in my mid twenties and it gave me nightmares. Hope you slept ok.

[JimmyRay73]

Sounds reminiscent of a mini-series from the early 80s called "The Day After."

Was mostly set in Kansas (where there were missile silos) and as far as I can recall it was pretty blunt about things. No happy ending, Steve Guttenberg and Jason Robards losing all their hair and realizing that everybody the knew was gone or going. It was enough to scare the crap out of a ten year old kid back in the day...

[headquarters]

the remake of Survivors is another good series imo.

Not nuclear war and not as bleak as threads , but still a good show.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Originally Posted by JimmyRay73

Sounds reminiscent of a mini-series from the early 80s called "The Day After."

I definitely rate Threads as grimmer and bleaker than They Day After. It was a truly depressing and frightening piece of TV. I remember wanting to watch it when it was on the telly - I was about 10 at the time. My mother (rightly) said no - I dread to think what I would have made of it at that age - it was terrifying enough when I was older.

Headquarters - I didn't see the remake, but the original 3 series were awesome, managed to lay hands on them on DVD last year. Anyone familiar with Last Train? It was an ITV series set in the aftermath of a comet strike on earth. Runs on Sci-Fi channel every so often.

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by TiggerCCW UK

I definitely rate Threads as grimmer and bleaker than They Day After. It was a truly depressing and frightening piece of TV. I remember wanting to watch it when it was on the telly - I was about 10 at the time. My mother (rightly) said no - I dread to think what I would have made of it at that age - it was terrifying enough when I was older.

Headquarters - I didn't see the remake, but the original 3 series were awesome, managed to lay hands on them on DVD last year. Anyone familiar with Last Train? It was an ITV series set in the aftermath of a comet strike on earth. Runs on Sci-Fi channel every so often.

1 season (6 episodes) just finished.

Second season due this fall.

Got a good suspense ,and seeing as it is Britain there are few guns around for the protagonists to use.The odd shotgun,melee weapons and some medieval stuff.

The show focuses more on relationships and problemsolving though.You could maybe even see it with the missus.

I guess I better see the original series too.

Threads is maybe to realistic for me.Got really queasy when I saw the "war game " last time.

[Mohoender]

I have watched part of it (no time for more right now). It seems interesting and realistic on many issues (UV problem for exemple). Actually, I have recently found an article stating that even a limited nuclear war would have harsh global consequences on UV levels. Definitely, it's well made and I find interesting that it was made just after a time when people had feared from something like that. I think that it was in 1982 when my parents made food reserves as they were fearing for war. However, I'm not convinced by everything.

Concerning harvest the lack of chemicals seems to be rated first and I'm not sure that would be a problem. In fact, we already put so much into the ground than that might not be a problem at all. From what I know the Amish in US are gettting the best crop output while they are not using any chemicals. Insects and drought could well be a problem, however. Finding seeds might be another problem.

They depict a society with no rules and where no one has taken over. I find that highly unbelievable especially as they compare the figures to that of the Middle Ages. They forgot, that most European societies had been built around bandits who had settled down and carved their own petty kingdoms. Most often, being part of the nobility means that one of your ancester was some kind of bandits who made his fortune using ways similar to that of the modern mafias. In that matter, I find the ideas of T2K more realistic.

One more thing, the world (humanity) already survived to the level of casualties that would bring a nuclear war and I would not be surprised if it was to survive again. The Great Plague (1347-1350) had killed to a similar level and that combined with severe hunger and global freezing. I'm sure that we would face new problems but what occur at that time is interesting to imagine what could happen after a nuclear conflict. Here is the link to the Wiki on it. It might inerest you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death

[Marc]

Originally Posted by TiggerCCW UK

I definitely rate Threads as grimmer and bleaker than They Day After. It was a truly depressing and frightening piece of TV.

I knew "The day after" because it was showed in Spain in the late 80's ( "El dia después") . And I must agree with Tigger and HQ, I find "Threads" to be more realistic and although I liked "The day after". I remeber specially one great image from the American TV-serie where the people from Kansas saw the missiles emerging from their silos. This single, powerful image, with the missiles flying to their distant targets against a clear blue sky in an otherwise normal day, contains enough implication to keep you stuck in your seat, hypnotized by the countdown that will inevitably erase the world as you know it.

When I was 14 years old, one of the proposed books to read in the Catalan Language subject was "GermÃÂ* de la Terra", "Brother in the land", by Robert Swindells (thanks to Saint Google, again). I think It was my first contact with the post-apocalyptic genre. Although the book is classified as "Young adult literature", I have read it again two or three times since then. A great book. "Threads" reminds me very much about "Brother in the land". Perhaps because in both cases the scenery of the story is situated in Great Britain, they share some interesting points in common. Basically, in both cases the story last for years after the fall of the nukes, entering in the terrain of the non-immediate, but even more horrible consequences of a nuclear exchange. In both cases the story remains somehow unfinished, but they left you with the feeling that the rest is too much sad to continue.

Well, I've take note about "Survivors". I will try to get it by "those magical methods" this night. Thanks for the suggestion.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Originally Posted by Marc

When I was 14 years old, one of the proposed books to read in the Catalan Language subject was "GermÃÂ* de la Terra", "Brother in the land", by Robert Swindells (thanks to Saint Google, again). I think It was my first contact with the post-apocalyptic genre. Although the book is classified as "Young adult literature", I have read it again two or three times since then. A great book. "Threads" reminds me very much about "Brother in the land". Perhaps because in both cases the scenery of the story is situated in Great Britain, they share some interesting points in common.

I have a signed copy of this in the house from when the author visited our school - very good book and one I'd happily recommend to anyone on here.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

One more thing, the world (humanity) already survived to the level of casualties that would bring a nuclear war and I would not be surprised if it was to survive again. The Great Plague (1347-1350) had killed to a similar level and that combined with severe hunger and global freezing. I'm sure that we would face new problems but what occur at that time is interesting to imagine what could happen after a nuclear conflict.

Well, the plausibility of the consequences of a nuclear exchange as the one depicted in Twilight:2000 or "Threads" can be a source of an interminable but interesting thread. And the terrain of the long term effects of such a war belongs entirely to the fascinating field of the "What If's". From my point of view, the most useful and reliable information that a government can give to me in the case of an "Threads" exchange type is the estimated points of impact. I would try to reach the nearest one it with my family as soon as possible. Of course, given the case, I would have only partial information, so I would never know for sure the extent of the conflict and, eventually I would find enough courage or desperation to try to be one of the survivors...

Anyway, I've never thought that the nuclear war effects depicted in Twilight were realistic. And I find it somewhat relieving. After all, I will never be playing or refereeing a game that causes me a depression... So, it's good enough for me.

I agree that probably the mankind will survive even a non-limited nuclear war. But it would be little consolation for the few survivors (if any) in the Northern Hemisphere for generations... I'm afraid that the long term effects are far beyond the "Great Plague" (our "Pesta Negra"). You can try to avoid the bubonic infection if you have the information of the methods and its presence. But little can be done against things like the deformations in the fetus, the increased cancer probability, the damage to the harvests and animal species, the blindness caused by the UV's, the unknown consequences over the climatology. And of course, the plagues will be again an important factor. And last, but not less important, neither the normal common XXI century people does not know much about the natural environment, nor about the ways to get food from it. And those who knows something about it will be facing and altered climate and (in the worst though unproved case) a nuclear winter...

Mmmmmm...grim enough...

[Marc]

Originally Posted by TiggerCCW UK

I have a signed copy of this in the house from when the author visited our school - very good book and one I'd happily recommend to anyone on here.

Nice coincidence! I must recognize that when I think about it, I'm still surprised that my teacher introduced us to this book. It meant a total difference if compared with the normal readings of my school period.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by TiggerCCW UK

I definitely rate Threads as grimmer and bleaker than They Day After. It was a truly depressing and frightening piece of TV. I remember wanting to watch it when it was on the telly - I was about 10 at the time. My mother (rightly) said no - I dread to think what I would have made of it at that age - it was terrifying enough when I was older.

Headquarters - I didn't see the remake, but the original 3 series were awesome, managed to lay hands on them on DVD last year. Anyone familiar with Last Train? It was an ITV series set in the aftermath of a comet strike on earth. Runs on Sci-Fi channel every so often.

I saw the first couple of episodes of the Last Train...remember one episode in particular where the group found there way to some sort of abandoned holiday camp? Never saw the end of the series.

Would agree with Headquarters about Survivors (the remake)...on the whole it was pretty good and had some quite useful ideas for a T2K campaign, although the last episode felt a little rushed...it left a few loose ends, although I understand a second series has been confirmed, so perhaps that might tidy them up. There was a programme called "The Cult of Survivors" on BBC3 or 4 (can't remember which)...was a look back on the original...seemed quite good (in a sort of standard BBC 1970's sci fi sort of way!)

I think Threads and The Day After first showed on British TV at much the same time...Threads was definitely much, much bleaker...I still recall some of the images from the first time I watched it, which I think was when it first came out in 1984...I'd have been around 14 at the time. Definitely the stuff of nightmares.

[Mohoender]

Marc

I agree with you but I think that what is described on the "Pesta Negra" is relevant to some extend. At the time, mankind didn't know anything on it, they had no way to act really. It is estimated that it killed an average of 50% of the European population (some are saying 80% for France or Spain). 20% for the world.

As a result, you had civil disorder, economical crisis, health crisis of course, blind killings (Jews for exemple), power switching... In addition, this was followed or linked to a general drop of global temperature, disruption of food production and widespread hunger. Strangely, I found that very similar of what would be the situation after a nuclear war and, therefore, I find it interesting in order to imagine what could happen.

As I said, I didn't know about "Threads" and found it very interesting as well, I'll be watching it fully as soon as I can.

As for you I don't think of T2K as being entirely realistic but I like to make my games plausible.

By the way, do you know of a site where I could find "Operation Ganymed" in some other language than German.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

Marc
I agree with you but I think that what is described on the "Pesta Negra" is relevant to some extend. At the time, mankind didn't know anything on it, they had no way to act really. It is estimated that it killed an average of 50% of the European population (some are saying 80% for France or Spain). 20% for the world.
As a result, you had civil disorder, economical crisis, health crisis of course, blind killings (Jews for exemple), power switching... In addition, this was followed or linked to a general drop of global temperature, disruption of food production and widespread hunger. Strangely, I found that very similar of what would be the situation after a nuclear war and, therefore, I find it interesting in order to imagine what could happen.

Ok, I understand you. And I would agree with you in the analogies between the two cases if the nuclear exchange was limited to a certain degree. In the other case, a full nuclear conflict, I see too many unpredictable and unknown variables entering in equation. Ei! And I'm not being objective, Mo! I'm still under the "Threads" effect.

Originally Posted by Mohoender

As for you I don't think of T2K as being entirely realistic but I like to make my games plausible.

I totally agree with you. As a GM, I think that once you have decided that you will depart from a certain background, you must build your world/campaign accordingly. Being realistic is not as important as being plausible

Originally Posted by Mohoender

By the way, do you know of a site where I could find "Operation Ganymed" in some other language than German.

I'm trying to get it, but without success, for the moment. I've only managed some links to download it in Spanish or German. It seems it has not been translated to French or Portuguese. But it's strange that we've been unable to find a link for the English version.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Marc

I'm trying to get it, but without success, for the moment. I've only managed some links to download it in Spanish or German. It seems it has not been translated to French or Portuguese. But it's strange that we've been unable to find a link for the English version.

If you have a link to a Spanish version, I could deal with that. My little spanish dates back 20 years but I can still manage to get around it. However, I'm entirely unable to get around German. I think that I'm definitely averse to that language (and only to the language ).

[Nowhere Man 1966]

I saw it in 1984/85 when I was 18, pretty scary. It was kind of interesting that there was some sort of order returning in society, I remember some limited use of electricity and the attempt to teach kids by using an old VCR and TV. That tells me that there was some "controlling legal authority" that has come about, I wish there was more of a background on that.

Chuck M.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by TiggerCCW UK

I have a signed copy of this in the house from when the author visited our school - very good book and one I'd happily recommend to anyone on here.

Agreed. I think we've discussed this book before.

[Marc]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

If you have a link to a Spanish version, I could deal with that. My little spanish dates back 20 years but I can still manage to get around it. However, I'm entirely unable to get around German. I think that I'm definitely averse to that language (and only to the language ).

Here you have the link. You will find the rapidshare links to .rar files.

http://www.taringa.net/posts/tv-peli...egaupload.html

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Marc

Here you have the link. You will find the rapidshare links to .rar files.

http://www.taringa.net/posts/tv-peli...egaupload.html

Thanks

[TiggerCCW UK]

Originally Posted by Targan

Agreed. I think we've discussed this book before.

We have, but I thought it was worth mentioning again for all the new folks on here. If you can get it try and get an early version of it before they rewrote the end for a happy ending!

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Marc

Anyway, I've never thought that the nuclear war effects depicted in Twilight were realistic.

I seem to remember it's written somewhere amongst the rulebooks that the aftereffects of the nuclear strikes were purposely watered down just so the characters might actually have a chance of doing something besides pure survival.
Damn hard to get around, contribute to rebuilding society and so on when you're 60% focused on finding your next non-irradiated meal and 40% on minimsing your rads by staying in a crude fallout shelter.

Two other books I would reccomend reading are "Z for Zachariah" by Robert C. O'Brien and "Wolf and Iron" by Gordon R Dickson.
The first, while a younger readers book, is quite grim in it's portrayal of the world and the second is set in a non-nuclear post holocaust world but one I feel fits nicely with T2K.

[Earthpig]

I loved Wolf and Iron, and still have it on the shelf here.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Two other books I would reccomend reading are "Z for Zachariah" by Robert C. O'Brien and "Wolf and Iron" by Gordon R Dickson.

I recall that "Z for Zachariah" had quite a profound effect on me when I read it as a young teenager.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Z for Zacahriah is a good read as well, although I always wanted a bit more background on the war in the book - although I know thats just my inner military nerd coming out :-) The book was never meant to be about anything other than the events in the valley and was more about the characters than the background.