T2K and the French & Indian War

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by Webstral

The need for scrounging and improvising will produce a force that is more self-reliant than the force that entered the war, too. I wonder, though, whether the troops will be involved in distilling fuel and growing food. The transfer of administrative functions to civilians so that able-bodied troops can be freed for combat duties seems likely to extend itself throughout the CSS specialties and perhaps some CS specialties.

I think local civies will take care of most food and fuel production, but I do believe that troops taking a break from combat ops would also be asked to shoulder some of the load whenever possible. The Red Army of WWII was routinely tasked with helping with the harvest and other agricultural jobs in areas liberated from the Germans. In many areas, due to German depredations, there just weren't enough civilians left to do all of the work that needed to be done. I think this would be the case in many parts of the world, Poland especially. Armies would have to pitch in out of sheer necessity.

Ranger companies would probably be exempted from this sort of duty since they would be conducting field operations pretty much year round.

Your Green Jackets sound very much like a modern iteration of Robert's Rangers (and perhaps Ethan Allen's Green Mountain Boys during the Revolutionary period, before Vermont got really uppity)- incidentally, Roger's Rangers' official uniform consisted of green jacket and breeches.

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by Raellus

I think local civies will take care of most food and fuel production, but I do believe that troops taking a break from combat ops would also be asked to shoulder some of the load whenever possible. The Red Army of WWII was routinely tasked with helping with the harvest and other agricultural jobs in areas liberated from the Germans. In many areas, due to German depredations, there just weren't enough civilians left to do all of the work that needed to be done. I think this would be the case in many parts of the world, Poland especially. Armies would have to pitch in out of sheer necessity.

Ranger companies would probably be exempted from this sort of duty since they would be conducting field operations pretty much year round.

Your Green Jackets sound very much like a modern iteration of Robert's Rangers (and perhaps Ethan Allen's Green Mountain Boys during the Revolutionary period, before Vermont got really uppity)- incidentally, Roger's Rangers' official uniform consisted of green jacket and breeches.

I also think that the "regular's" will be tasked with the day to day of foraging, preparing defenses, cleaning weapons, maintenance on whatever equipment happens to be with the unit. It even says in both V1 and V2.2 that foraging and farming were the order of the day once the unit had set up its' fortified base of operations.

I think that the summer offensive of 2000 with the German III corp and the US V ID took the Russians, Poles, etc. by supprise. The Russian IV Army with it's gasoline was probably slated for a late fall/early winter offensive. Once the crops were in. I would imagine that the Spetnaz attached to IVth Army were conducting scouting/recon/road inspection for the tanks, that sort of task. They were probably looking at a drive to the west directed at the junction of the American and British Armies. This is the area the Spetnaz was concentrating on, vs the German III Corp.

The "Ranger" type of unit is probably the last of their kind. The best of the best after all these years of warfare. Any compitant commander would keep his "Rangers" as a strategic reserve, to be used in dire times or for dire missions.

My $0.02

Mike

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Webstral

I wonder, though, whether the troops will be involved in distilling fuel and growing food. The transfer of administrative functions to civilians so that able-bodied troops can be freed for combat duties seems likely to extend itself throughout the CSS specialities and perhaps some CS specialities.

It does seem the logical thing to do, but it doesn't appear to have occurred in T2K, at least not on a wide scale. The 2000 offensive was after all delayed because the troops hadn't been able to sow their crops for the year because of the later than expected rains.
A unit on the move also needs it's administrative support networks to do exactly as they're told, when they're told - civilians aren't exactly reliable enough, especially when there's a chance of combat. What commander wants their support network to flee the area right when they're needed most?

Originally Posted by Webstral

(This begs an interesting question. Do the MPs move to Boston as a platoon, then send smaller groups out from the patrol base?)

My guess? Absolutely. There's strength in numbers, and it's beneficial to have a base, even just a temporary one, to return to between forays.

Originally Posted by mikeo80

I think that the summer offensive of 2000 with the German III corp and the US V ID took the Russians, Poles, etc. by surprise. The Russian IV Army with it's gasoline was probably slated for a late fall/early winter offensive. Once the crops were in. I would imagine that the Spetnaz attached to IVth Army were conducting scouting/recon/road inspection for the tanks, that sort of task. They were probably looking at a drive to the west directed at the junction of the American and British Armies. This is the area the Spetnaz was concentrating on, vs the German III Corp.

The evidence does seem to back up a planned Pact offensive, but I'm not so sure it would have waited until autumn/winter - harvesting has to be done before the crops simply rot in the fields.
What the evidence doesn't show us is whether or not the Pact was taken by surprise. It's certainly possible, but even without aerial and satellite surveillance they'd have to know something was on the cards. Nato hadn't carried out any significant action in the north of Germany for approximately two years and those units there had for the most part done nothing but train, reorganise and build up supplies during that period (down south it was a bit different).
It's possible the Pact 2000 offensive was delayed, either because of weather conditions preventing reinforcements being brought up in time, or because the commanders "smelt a rat" and decided to hold their units for the probable need for a counter attack.

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

The evidence does seem to back up a planned Pact offensive, but I'm not so sure it would have waited until autumn/winter - harvesting has to be done before the crops simply rot in the fields.
What the evidence doesn't show us is whether or not the Pact was taken by surprise. It's certainly possible, but even without aerial and satellite surveillance they'd have to know something was on the cards. Nato hadn't carried out any significant action in the north of Germany for approximately two years and those units there had for the most part done nothing but train, reorganise and build up supplies during that period (down south it was a bit different).
It's possible the Pact 2000 offensive was delayed, either because of weather conditions preventing reinforcements being brought up in time, or because the commanders "smelt a rat" and decided to hold their units for the probable need for a counter attack.

There is also the possibility the the Soviet Military leaders were looking at history. The great winter offensives of 1942,1942, and 1943 during the Great Patriotic War all worked to one degree or another. The Russian Bear was always most dangerous during the winter. (Ask the Swedes, French and Germans!) What better way to drive that offensive then with the Russian IVth Army with it's gasoline (diesel?) powered tanks. The delay could have been pre-programmed to allow the Romanian Oil Fields more time to produce and refine gasoline/diesel!!

Obviously from the ORBAT of the Russian Army as presented by Allied Intellegence to Vth ID, the planners of the Allied offensive did NOT expect to run into IVth Russian.

I can see the commander of IVth Russian turning his entire "Ranger"/Spetnaz units loose on the Allied offensive as soon as the drive was anylized and plotted on the gaming table!

My $0.02

Mike

[Webstral]

In the interests of keeping the thread on-topic, I want to point out that the presence of Fourth Guards Tank Army in Belarus with its gasoline has been discussed at length in other threads.