Drugs/medical issues in T2k (includes 'Drug use & availability in the Twilight War')

[stg58fal]

I'd imagine weed would be fairly easy to find.

Meth will probably be almost as easy to get as weed, at least for a while. Once the chemicals for making more run out...? With a breakdown of law and order, I'd think meth labs would be popping up all over. And exploding all over, too, at least until Amateur Hour has come and gone.

Crack and coke I think you can pretty much forget. Opiates too, unless someone starts growing the right kind of poppies domestically after the collapse.

IDK about LSD, though.

There are plenty of natural substitutes for some of these substances (esp. LSD; I can think of at least two plants that can give a similar effect without having to search teh interwebz), so while the use of the particular drug might drop off, between the sorry state of the world and the need/desire to turn alcohol into fuel rather than booze, as well as the fact that it seems like it's always the scumbags and gangers (redundant, I know) that survive, I'd expect drug use overall will probably increase. At least as far as 'drug users as a percentage of the population' goes.

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

All I know is it would suck to be an addict in the post twilight world. Especially the ones that require chemicals to produce. Once they run out and you cannot find a substitute you will be in for a hard ride.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by stg58fal

Opiates too, unless someone starts growing the right kind of poppies domestically after the collapse.

I'd heard - from an article P.J. O'rourke wrote when he visited Eastern Europe just months before the fall of the iron curtain - that some Poles cook down poppy field stubble to render out a base for opiates to take

Depressing (not as depressing as Krokodil - DO NOT GOOGLE, NOT SAFE FOR YOUR SOUL).

[Targan]

Wow, that Krokodil stuff sounds really grim.

I doubt that hard-core psychoactives like LSD (and drugs with similar effects such as magic mushrooms and mescaline) would be very popular for recreational use in the post-apocalyptic world. You have to be in a good headspace for LSD to be enjoyable and I think most people in the T2K universe would've seen and be carrying too much psychological trauma for "tripping" to be fun.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by stg58fal

IDK about LSD, though.

You can get a pretty good analogue for LSD by making a batch of rye bread dough or a loaf of cooked rye bread. Spread it out and let it rot for about a week to two weeks in cool, damp, dark place. If you get the correct fungus to grow on the rye (not a sure thing), you will have a small batch of ergot fungus growing on the bread. And like LSD, a little goes a long way.

Ergot has been implicated in many historical incidents of "witches," possession, and suchlike; it's also been used by shamans and witch doctors for about as long as rye bread has been around (and ergot will grow on a few other organic materials as well).

[WallShadow]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

You can get a pretty good analogue for LSD by making a batch of rye bread dough or a loaf of cooked rye bread. Spread it out and let it rot for about a week to two weeks in cool, damp, dark place. If you get the correct fungus to grow on the rye (not a sure thing), you will have a small batch of ergot fungus growing on the bread. And like LSD, a little goes a long way.
.

IIRC, ergot poisoning also tends to make extremities (fingers, toes, ears, noses, and other dangle-y bits that are near and dear to our hearts) lose circulation and fall off. This is not a side-effect you'd be wanting to deal with just for any theraputic hallucinatory effects of the fungus, unless you just don't care what happens to the person you'll be freaking out.

As for cannabis leaves, they're just one side benefit of growing hemp! Hemp was grown throughout Colonial America (northwest of Lancaster, PA, is a township called "East Hempfield") for use in cordage (hemp ropes and cables were preferred for ships' rigging) and canvas (again, preferred for sails). Since the petrochemical and synthetic fiber industries are going to be long in coming back, I'd imagine that somebody, probably one of the surviving students of nature and organic farming, decided that hemp would be a good crop to bring forth.

Opium poppies may be a little more problematic; I not sure if the seed heads of normal domesticated (Eschscholzia Californica. California Poppies; Papaver Paeoniflorum; Papaver Laciniatum) poppy heads contain anywhere nearly enough sap as the Opium Poppy (Papaver Somniferum) to make a decent production run.

[HorseSoldier]

Opium poppies are cultivated by gardeners for the flowers, though. They'd tend to be out there, being grown, by groups where someone -- avid gardner, medical professionals, pharmacists, well-read junky -- knew enough to identify the seeds for the proper species and get cultivation online. The poppies themselves aren't hard too demanding once you get the seeds in the ground, and very hardy (they grow like weeds in Afghanistan, making me believe you could probably also grow them on the face of the moon . . .)

How much processing could be done with resulting opium would be limited by both expertise and available chemicals. Opium itself and Laudanum are easy enough that they'd be very common. Morphine and heroin aren't super complicated -- they are, after all, produced in bulk in clandestine labs in A'stan, SE Asia, and Mexico every day. However, I don't know how much personal expertise or written references are floating around in the mid-90's in the US or Europe, especially after the nukes fly.

No ideas on pricing, but I'd think availability would be something like:

Marijuana V/V or C/C
Hashish C/C or S/S
Opium, Laudanum S/S or R/R
Processed Morphine or Heroin/Diamorphine R/R

Of course it is entirely possible that in various locations some group would have a monopoly on some of the above (poppies more than marijuana, I'd think, as well as on production of the complicated derivatives), which would effect price, availability, and possibly provide gaming ideas. I could see New America as part of their survivalist prep thing making sure cells had access to opium poppy seeds and the know how to use it to make both medical grade morphine and recreational heroin, for instance (the better to control the restive non-white masses and all that).

Coca isn't grown anywhere outside the Andes, I don't think, and unlike opium poppies, possession of coca bushes in Europe and the US is a criminal offense. I could see some very limited continued importation to the US after the nukes (i.e. if you're going to risk trade all the way from northern South America to CONUS, it's only going to be for goods worth their weight in gold), but availability would tend to be -/- with acquisition being specific to some sort of gaming scenario.

Alternately, some New America cells could also be growing and processing coca as part of the same keep the masses high and subordinate plan. I could see them, as presented in the T2K universe, having sufficient connections and protection from politically powerful patrons to manage importation of coca bushes and their covert cultivation in CONUS. (Hell, maybe New America and it's secretive patrons in the US government are the reality behind the "CIA started the crack epidemic" meme from back in the 80s -- and New America being involved in the drug trade might help explain their funding -- all things PCs might learn along the way.)

The more processed drugs along the lines of LSD, PCP, Meth or other forms of amphetamines, synthetic opioids, etc., are probably a thing of the past entirely by 2000, unless somebody managed to stockpile chemical precursors and such in mass quantities. Which might not be too implausible -- in the post-TDM chaos, a group of bikers or somesuch could have been doing focused raids and thefts to acquire mass quantities of sudafed and other necessary chemicals. While not commonplace, it's another potential gaming storyline -- a large enough group of bikers to carve out some stable enclave and using continued access to crystal meth both as a super high end trade good.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Over in the "Drugs in t2k" thread I started many moons ago, it was posited that, at least in the CONUS, there'd be a healthy amount of stuff in police evidence lockers and warehouses. Now, of course, by late 2000 early 2001 when the troops begin to come home I'd wager most of that stuff is gone, and all that's easily accessible is pot.

edit: Here we go -

http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=3119

turns out there's a LOT of "Drugs in T2k" threads...! HMM...

[Targan]

Perhaps some thread merging is in order? Any objections?

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by Targan

Perhaps some thread merging is in order? Any objections?

Not from me. A pharmaceuticals megathread might help prospective GMs find out what medicines they might get in the ol' Howling Wilderness (be it back home or in Europe).

[dragoon500ly]

We've talked about drugs, but what about basic first aid? Here are some old 1920-1950s "home remedies"..

Honey: you can spread some on a burn or smear on a wound and then lightly wrap. Its used to quickly heal and prevent infection, it causes bacteria to burn itself out by multipling too fast, or so my grand mother always claimed!

Salt: Yes pouring salt on a open wound is painful, but it will kill an infection, this one was used in the Greeks and Romans as a specific against gangrene.

Blackberries are an old specific against diarreha.

Potato Peels: case of irritated or inflamed eyes, place grated peelings on a piece of gauze and cover the affected eye.

Spider Webs can also be used to help cover a wound.

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

We've talked about drugs, but what about basic first aid? Here are some old 1920-1950s "home remedies"..

Honey: you can spread some on a burn or smear on a wound and then lightly wrap. Its used to quickly heal and prevent infection, it causes bacteria to burn itself out by multipling too fast, or so my grand mother always claimed!

Salt: Yes pouring salt on a open wound is painful, but it will kill an infection, this one was used in the Greeks and Romans as a specific against gangrene.

Blackberries are an old specific against diarreha.

Potato Peels: case of irritated or inflamed eyes, place grated peelings on a piece of gauze and cover the affected eye.

Spider Webs can also be used to help cover a wound.

Here are more to add to the list:

Clorox Bleach (Plain, no perfumes or any thing else) will disinfect a wound.

Hydrogen Peroxide will disinfect a wound.

Salt placed on gum will help with toothache

Castor Oil will help with constipation.

Alchohol rubbed on the skin will lower fever.

Aloe plant, cut open, will help with minor burns.

Just a few more "Moldy oldies" to keep in mind when faced with TEOTWAWKI.

My $0.02

Mike

[Graebarde]

Originally Posted by WallShadow

IIRC, ergot poisoning also tends to make extremities (fingers, toes, ears, noses, and other dangle-y bits that are near and dear to our hearts) lose circulation and fall off. This is not a side-effect you'd be wanting to deal with just for any theraputic hallucinatory effects of the fungus, unless you just don't care what happens to the person you'll be freaking out.

As for cannabis leaves, they're just one side benefit of growing hemp! Hemp was grown throughout Colonial America (northwest of Lancaster, PA, is a township called "East Hempfield") for use in cordage (hemp ropes and cables were preferred for ships' rigging) and canvas (again, preferred for sails). Since the petrochemical and synthetic fiber industries are going to be long in coming back, I'd imagine that somebody, probably one of the surviving students of nature and organic farming, decided that hemp would be a good crop to bring forth.

Opium poppies may be a little more problematic; I not sure if the seed heads of normal domesticated (Eschscholzia Californica. California Poppies; Papaver Paeoniflorum; Papaver Laciniatum) poppy heads contain anywhere nearly enough sap as the Opium Poppy (Papaver Somniferum) to make a decent production run.

Ergot is nasty stuff. While it does cause hallucinations eventually, it's because the brain is being bled. Yes it does cause the blood flow to extremeties to be blocked. During the Crimean War the Russian forces lost a sizeable percent of their cavalry horses and men due to ergot poisoning from contaminated rye. It was one of the reasons we never grew the stuff on the farm. It can affect other grasses too, but rye was the worst of the commercial grains affected. Ergot looks like rat turds in the grain. I have seen some samples where there were more ergot than rye kernals. It can and is sold to companies for pharacutical use as blood thinners and RAT POISON. You'd have to be stupid.. oh wait we are talking about dopers here right... to take it voluntarily.

As for hemp, there are TWO stains, European and Chinese (Oriental). The THC is highest in the Oriental and is the 'drug' variety. European is much lowerin THC and is the basis for 'Industrial' hemp that is making a comeback in the US. You'd have to smoke one heck of a lot of it in short order to get a mild buzz from what I've read. You still need a special permit to grow it, and the major pest of the fields are two legged idots that don't believe the signs that say it is not the type that makes you high.

Just my two cents.

[HorseSoldier]

Yeah -- I read about a research farm in the UK that was growing acres and acres of low-THC content hemp. The first year they were in operation there was a major problem with fence jumpers trespassing and harvesting the "weed" they were growing. The second year and thereafter, not so much -- any locals who were excited about the sight of acres and acres of hemp having learned their lesson the first year.

[WallShadow]

Out of the foggy depths of my college memories come mention of an Isomerizer--a device which concentrates the THC from low-buzz weed into better-buzz tarry blackened residue. I have no clue as to the details, but a friend's druggie housemate was a Chem major, so this was an example of homework paying off! It involved alcohol and an elevate temperature, and that's the extent of the explanation I received when inquiring about this miraculous machine. I do remember some housemates thought they were going to turn pigs ears into silk purses, but you can't turn stems and seeds into much more than they originally were. The entrepreneurs did some heavy marketing and hard-sell on the weird-looking result, and some people were stupid enough to be caught up in the sell.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by WallShadow

Out of the foggy depths of my college memories come mention of an Isomerizer--a device which concentrates the THC from low-buzz weed into better-buzz tarry blackened residue.

That's how you make hash oil. Ether works best in that process but, as with many similarly dodgy endeavours, many who try it end up with burns and at least a blackened work area, at worst a charcoal shell where the building used to be.