Vice in T2K

[Raellus]

I forgot gambling. Since ancient times, gambling, whether it be dice, or cards, or goading arachnids into mitiature gladiatorial contests, soldiers have enjoyed games of chance (or wagering on games of skill). That said, in 2000 or so, what would they be risking? Cash and military scrip wouldn't likely hold much value c.2000. Soldiers often gamble rations of the other militarily permissable vices- alchohol rations and cigarettes, most commonly. This once again raises the question of how common such vices would be.

[Neal5x5]

IIRC, there is a blurb in the 2013 book about coffee becoming the new cocaine and export of coffee beans being one of the few highly profitable ventures still going from South America. Coffee is grown in 70 countries, so if there is any contact in the area with contacts who travel around Africa, Arabia, Central or South America, or Asia, it will likely include coffee. Even the artificial stuff will likely be be around (such as Postum was in the US during WWII).

Also, even in times of famine, beer production will likely be around. It's a high caloric beverage (like drinking your bread) and much less likely to infect the drinker with waterborne diseases. If there's bread, then there is likely beer.

[WallShadow]

Originally Posted by Neal5x5

IIRC, there is a blurb in the 2013 book about coffee becoming the new cocaine and export of coffee beans being one of the few highly profitable ventures still going from South America. Coffee is grown in 70 countries, so if there is any contact in the area with contacts who travel around Africa, Arabia, Central or South America, or Asia, it will likely include coffee. Even the artificial stuff will likely be be around (such as Postum was in the US during WWII).

Also, even in times of famine, beer production will likely be around. It's a high caloric beverage (like drinking your bread) and much less likely to infect the drinker with waterborne diseases. If there's bread, then there is likely beer.

Coffee and tobacco have been grown in Turkey and around the Mediterranean for a long time--main problem in T2K is transport. Once you can get some tobacco seed, it can be cultivated, but at great cost to the soil quality, from what I understand. Beer and bread production have been linked for, oh, about forever--just skim the yeast barm off the top of the brew in process and you've got leavening for bread.

I caught the oblique reference to "Mudder's Milk" And remember, Ben Franklin got it right when he said that wine (and by extension, beer) "is a constant proof that God loves us and loves to see us happy."

[Graebarde]

Originally Posted by WallShadow

Coffee and tobacco have been grown in Turkey and around the Mediterranean for a long time--main problem in T2K is transport. Once you can get some tobacco seed, it can be cultivated, but at great cost to the soil quality, from what I understand. Beer and bread production have been linked for, oh, about forever--just skim the yeast barm off the top of the brew in process and you've got leavening for bread.

I caught the oblique reference to "Mudder's Milk" And remember, Ben Franklin got it right when he said that wine (and by extension, beer) "is a constant proof that God loves us and loves to see us happy."

Tobacco can be grown where ever tomatoes can be grown. Of course the quality comes from the conditions (soil, temps, moisture, length of season, harvesting, curing) under which it is managed. Soil quality (probably referring to nutrients?) can be worked around as you probably would not have hundreds of acres of it. A small patch is usually all that would be grown. A tobacco plant yields ~75 grams of tobacco. A carton of cigarettes (200) would require ~ 200 grams according to my research IIRC. On a 1/10 acre plot (66 feet x 66 feet) under normal practice you could have about 1000 plants. Now figure 75% actually produce (don't die off or get eaten by bugs) that's 750 plants, thats about 280 cartons or 56 kg of tobacco (which is also chewed or smoked in pipes.) I think pipe smoking would make a comeback over cigarettes that require paper.

And a few plants would yield enough seed for acres of tobacco. There are something like 10000 seeds/pound. Tobaccor is usually started in 'sterile' plots and transplanted to the fields so actual field counts may be higher than 75%. There's lots of work to raising tobacco from first planting the seed to end product.

[B.T.]

I don't have any correct numbers, but I know, that in the EU a surprisingly high amount of tobacco was cultivated in the 90ies. Nowadays tobacco is not wanted anymore, but in the T2k timeline, there would have been the possibility, to grow tobacco. I can imagine, that on a local basis some farms or small settlements would raise tobacco in order to generate a valuable trading product. Certainly the growing of grains/cereals would be more important for a community, but on a limited scale I can imagine tobacco to give some additional income for farms.
From time to time ilegal cannabis plantations are discovered in Germany. Sometimes the police finds them and destroys them but, yes, in certain areas cannabis can be grown in Western Europe. I suppose, the same is true in Poland - just a guess.

[simonmark6]

Hemp is a good crop however producing fibre, oil and animal feed. As a byproduct, some strands that are commercially viable in N. Europe do have very, very mild level of the psychoactive elements in marijuana. Not much apparently, but maybe enough for a very mild buzz.

In some of my games, smoking the leaves is a perk for farmers and areas that grow hemp but the buzz wasn't enough to justify marketing it commercially.

[Graebarde]

Originally Posted by simonmark6

Hemp is a good crop however producing fibre, oil and animal feed. As a byproduct, some strands that are commercially viable in N. Europe do have very, very mild level of the psychoactive elements in marijuana. Not much apparently, but maybe enough for a very mild buzz.

In some of my games, smoking the leaves is a perk for farmers and areas that grow hemp but the buzz wasn't enough to justify marketing it commercially.

Trying to get a high on industrial hemp (there are two sub species of c. sativa one of which is high in THC, the other very low.) is like trying to get drunk on O'Douls. The intake would have to be enormus in a short time period.

[simonmark6]

Originally Posted by Graebarde

Trying to get a high on industrial hemp (there are two sub species of c. sativa one of which is high in THC, the other very low.) is like trying to get drunk on O'Douls. The intake would have to be enormus in a short time period.

Agreed, which is why it isn't a trade good and is used as a poor substitute for tobacco rather than a means of getting high. I'm sure that if O'Douls was a byproduct of another industry and available cheap or free to the workers they'd drink it if there was nothing else available.

[Graebarde]

Originally Posted by simonmark6

Agreed, which is why it isn't a trade good and is used as a poor substitute for tobacco rather than a means of getting high. I'm sure that if O'Douls was a byproduct of another industry and available cheap or free to the workers they'd drink it if there was nothing else available.

O'Douls is a 'non alcoholic' malt drink made by a brewer. That is NOT to say there is NO alcohol in it, but less tha .05%. It's not bad and what I drink now, but that's another story.

As for the industrial hemp, it might not be a good narcotic trade item but IS for fiber and seeds I think.

[Apache6]

I've used human traffickers in campaigns in the past as a way to quickly define hostile groups. It's a black and white topic that no honorable man will accept.

Lots of roleplaying oportunities can come from this, including rescuing enslaved friends, family or just locals.

Alternatively a unit of PCs could suddenly find out that their allies after defeating a maruader group or Soviet formation, thinks it's OK to take their females as spoils of war. How do your PCs deal with that?

[Tegyrius]

Originally Posted by Raellus

I forgot gambling. Since ancient times, gambling, whether it be dice, or cards, or goading arachnids into mitiature gladiatorial contests, soldiers have enjoyed games of chance (or wagering on games of skill). That said, in 2000 or so, what would they be risking? Cash and military scrip wouldn't likely hold much value c.2000.

Winner gets out of latrine duty for a week?

- C.

[WallShadow]

Originally Posted by Tegyrius

Winner gets out of latrine duty for a week?

- C.

Or--
Who gets first dibs--
--on captured equipment?
--choice of guard duty slots?
--on any luxury items found/obtained?
--on female companionship (that could be either "first choice" or "first in line" depending on the arrangements)?


Or--
Who gets _last_ dibs--
--on gravedigging detail?
--on butcher detail, if meat animals are to be slaughtered?
--on KP duty?