Questions about Home Guard/Militia units..

[bobcat]

well as for the availability of the knowledge. reprints of these manuals are quite common and since around '95 have been available to download for free which is how i got my copy. however with the EMP's knocking out large numbers of computer systems and power fluctuations it may not be accessible for everyone everywhere.

that said with the soviets pushing onto american soil long before the nukes hit more and more people are going to be grabbing these and myriad other field manuals just like they did for Y2K, and every other "dooms day" scenario. so assuming most good machine shops have the know how is not overly stretching credulity. granted this mainly applies to the older tanks and AFV's its not like i can go down to jim's car repair and expect him to fix up a Bradley fighting vehicle but a ferret armored car or an old sherman is an entirely different matter and is actually feasible given the scenario(including the desperate "make it work then worry about the doctrine later" attitude anyone who's still alive in 2000 would have.)

[Legbreaker]

I'm yet to be convinced the internet is a viable option for gathering information in the T2K timeline. I personally didn't even bother with dialup until about 1999 - just didn't see much point in "this new fangled thing!"
How many other people felt the same way I wonder? How many who did have reliable net access could see the potential value in downloading manuals?

Y2K may have seen a run on manuals, and T2K may be seen in a similar way, however how many of those manuals were about survival, farming and the like, and how many were mechanical manuals for old, obsolete and somewhat rare ex-military vehicles?

Edit: Also, just how much was even available online back then? We're used to almost instant gratification of our desires for information today, but it was a very different situation 16 years ago!

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

I saw allot more field and tech manuals in my local surplus place and collectors of such than on the internet of the time. One friend of mine had a virtual library of such books, with the various history books and such. He was a big time miniatures war-gamer of WW2 and Vietnam/Modern (as was I) Heck even the National guard armory had some old manuals when they cleaned it out in around 2000.

So combined with the aspect of portable generators, skilled and semi skilled personnel, collectors inventories, and military leadership. I would imagine with the american mindset they would get the old surplus stuff up and running to active but limited duty.

[kato13]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Edit: Also, just how much was even available online back then? We're used to almost instant gratification of our desires for information today, but it was a very different situation 16 years ago!

My first BBS download, of the Anarchists Cookbook, was in October of 1984. (Not a typo) The US Army's Ranger Handbook was my second. I worked in my High school's print shop so I had bound paper copies the next day.

It certainly was not instant at 0.3kbs but all kinds of stuff was available.

As far as the internet, it was used frequently by college students here as early at 1991 and it was my career by 1994.

If you want to look at when information exploded onto the internet it was when PDFs became readily available and that was around 1993.

Even pre PDF I was part of an effort which included converting a boat load of vehicular technical documents into an electronic format for Firestone's Service centers. This was an attempt to create one of the first intranets in 1990.

[WallShadow]

This thread gave me a mental picture of Bobcat, Dragoon, and Olefin standing around the VFW memorial M4 Sherman in the town square comparing notes and ideas on how to resuscitate her, while Legbreaker and Targan are kibitzing within earshot on how impossible it's going to be.

Me? I'm going to add my 2 cents of constructive criticism and be mentally searching my brain for any sources of info, parts, and materiel needed to fix her up. And, being a military history geek, that would include any Technical Manuals I personally own or know of in any of the local used bookstores or military surplus stores.

[Legbreaker]

Nobody is saying it's impossible, just implausible.

Sure, there are resources out there - technicians, tools, raw materials, power, fuel, manuals, technical drawings and specifications, and all the other bits and pieces needed such as food, and labour which can be spared from the fields. The problem is it's likely to be a very rare occurrence that all the necessary factors are all going to be in the one place at the same time when they're actually needed.

Crack that rather major problem and there's no practical reason why a community can't have a fleet of AFVs at it's disposal.

[WallShadow]

Then again, you have to weigh the benefits of neighbors' reactions: "They got a TANK running! Let's not mess with them." or "...let's be friends with them in case we need to borrow it some day." or "maybe they can help us fix some of our machinery for trade goods", or "maybe they can help us beat up the evil overlord threatening us from the town down the road", balanced against the problems of "They got a tank running. Let's go steal it/fight them for it/destroy it so they can't use it against us/capture or kill their technicians."

Heck, even being seen _working_ on a (actually hopeless) tank could provoke any of the above reactions--from offers of mutual support agreements to triggering pre-emptive strikes on the soon-to-be well-armored community. As well as internal strife about allocation of the community's resources (now _where_ did that idea come from? ). And is the work on the Sherman for real, or is the town just running a big bluff? This can be a nice adventure-seed producer!

[Olefin]

I keep hearing that tanks and AFV's in the hands of the militia in the US would be implausible? Hmm you mean implausible like ...

A successful Soviet invasion of Alaska before nuclear war broke out?

Mexico conquering almost all of Texas, half of CA, almost all of AZ and NM and then somehow holding onto most of it post war?

The Italians, Greeks, Spanish, and Portuguese all turning their backs on their NATO obligations and in the case of the Italians and Greeks declaring war on NATO and actually invading fellow NATO countries in support of the Soviets?

The Belgians, the majority of whom are related directly to the Dutch, going along without any concern with an armed invasion and occupation of the Netherlands and not one single unit mutinies against the order?

MilGov somehow allowing the Oklahoma refineries and oil wells to be lost at the end of 2001 when it probably represents 90% of their available oil?

Not one single WWII prop plane, let alone light attack jet, being in the hands of MilGov to use to shoot down the ultralights and dirigibles of New America when they had enough aviation gas to maintain very occasional air contact with New England?

The US military,including the USMC who has never abandoned its people for any reason, going home and writing off several intact (by year 2000 standards) divisions, including an USMC division, cut off behind enemy lines while the same enemy is beginning to collapse and thus make it possible those men can be retrieved?

etc..

Guys you have to keep in mind that the making of the implausible into "reality" is the heart and soul of the Twilight 2000 canon. Thus given all the above implausibilities that we accept freely as part of the canon of the game, I dont see the existence and operation of tanks and AFV's by municipalities and milita groups in the US as being implausible in any way.

If you can accept those implausibilities, the city of Des Moines, Iowa having two old Sherman tanks and a Ferret as part of its militia is pretty easy to swallow.

And not trying in any way to get anything started about the canon of the game or anything else. Just trying to show how we accept multiple implausibilities every day as part of the canon.