RPG Forums

Go Back   RPG Forums > Role Playing Game Section > Twilight 2000 Forum
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-07-2013, 11:11 PM
Webstral's Avatar
Webstral Webstral is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North San Francisco Bay
Posts: 1,688
Default

I'm going to have a go at garlic, too. I thoroughly enjoyed the results of my first attempt at back yard garlic. The garlic was so incredibly flavorful that a single clove of backyard garlic was as potent as a half-dozen store-bought cloves. The complexity of the back yard garlic flavor compared to store-bought variety was beyond comparison.
__________________
“We’re not innovating. We’re selectively imitating.” June Bernstein, Acting President of the University of Arizona in Tucson, November 15, 1998.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-08-2013, 05:43 PM
Raellus's Avatar
Raellus Raellus is online now
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southern AZ
Posts: 4,327
Default

Assuming your profile tags are current, the climate in which you are conducting your experiment is both cooler and wetter, on average, than the climate in most of southern Arizona. I know that you know this. I just what to reiterate how impractical most forms of agriculture are here without extensive irregation, and that means importing significant amounts of water and transporting it over long distances. I know that you have considered this but it bears repeating simply for its value as an adventure/plot hook. Controlling access to water for irregation will be crucial for any major polity hoping to exist in the region. Even with alternative and/or "taditional" forms of agriculture, irrigation will be necessary to supplement the minimal precipitation and the nearly non-existent surface water sources here in Southern Arizona.
__________________
Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048
https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-08-2013, 06:16 PM
Cdnwolf's Avatar
Cdnwolf Cdnwolf is offline
The end is nigh!!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: London, Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,456
Default

Must be nice to be able to start planting early... have to wait until May 24 before its safe for me to start gardening. I love growing herbs and spices and when the world comes to an end they would grow in value.
__________________
*************************************
Each day I encounter stupid people I keep wondering... is today when I get my first assault charge??
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-08-2013, 07:24 PM
Targan's Avatar
Targan Targan is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,757
Default

How deep do you have to go in southern Arizona before you hit the water table? Is drilling deep wells a practical option or is the water just too deep/non-existant?
__________________
"It is better to be feared than loved" - Nicolo Machiavelli
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-08-2013, 10:40 PM
Raellus's Avatar
Raellus Raellus is online now
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southern AZ
Posts: 4,327
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Targan View Post
How deep do you have to go in southern Arizona before you hit the water table? Is drilling deep wells a practical option or is the water just too deep/non-existant?
It depends on the exact location but wells are a practical option, for some water needs. My house is one of five on a well which, coincidently, was on the fritz this afternoon (must have been the pump again). I had to drive the family into town to shower at the folks' house. Anyway, there are so many wells pumping so much water out of the ground here that the few rivers that used to run year round here all dried up decades ago. There's only a couple left now and they barely qualify as streams. The water table has dropped dramatically over the past century. "Recharge" programs pump water back into the ground but never enough to replace what's pumped out. Perhaps, in a T2K scenario where 2/3 of the greater Tucson area population have died or been driven off, the aquifers will have time to recover somewhat.

At the moment, much of Tucson's water is imported via the Central Arizona Project canal. It's by far the biggest "river" here.
__________________
Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048
https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-08-2013, 11:18 PM
Targan's Avatar
Targan Targan is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,757
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raellus View Post
Anyway, there are so many wells pumping so much water out of the ground here that the few rivers that used to run year round here all dried up decades ago. There's only a couple left now and they barely qualify as streams. The water table has dropped dramatically over the past century. "Recharge" programs pump water back into the ground but never enough to replace what's pumped out. Perhaps, in a T2K scenario where 2/3 of the greater Tucson area population have died or been driven off, the aquifers will have time to recover somewhat.
That makes a lot of sense. Here in my city we've had similar problems with too much water being drawn from the main big aquifers. Sadly a lot of unique stygofauna became extinct when the water table in the caves around Perth was too greatly reduced. Our state government has built two big desalination plants which has somewhat reduced the problem but desalination is a bloody expensive way to provide potable water and it's completely impractical in a T2K situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Webstral View Post
Several years ago, I posted some findings on how other folks in the Third World grow crops in semi-arid climates. I won't repeat it here, other than to say that in some cases the contour of the land is exploited to multiple the precipitation that soaks into the ground where the crops are being grown...
Absolutely. Several pre-Columbian South American civilizations were able to support impressively large populations on what we today would consider very marginal farmland through the use of man-made terraces, careful water re-routing, soil conservation and improvement, etc. You still see terracing there and in parts of Africa and SE Asia.
__________________
"It is better to be feared than loved" - Nicolo Machiavelli
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-23-2013, 09:53 PM
natehale1971's Avatar
natehale1971 natehale1971 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Monroe, NC, USA
Posts: 1,199
Send a message via AIM to natehale1971 Send a message via MSN to natehale1971 Send a message via Yahoo to natehale1971
Default

Web, have you thought about trying Aquaponics?

It's something that my family is planning on starting this year, or next after i move back to the homestead. The hydroponics & aquaculture create a closed circle that draws from the waste products from the fish that are pretty nasty and normally requires special methods of disposal. But ironically the waste products from the fish actually feeds the plants in such a way that the year around yeild is greatly increased.

And it doesn't require all that much space if you do it right, and it normally doesn't draw as much notice... one of the guys who's been helping me get the things ready for it, actually has his in a small shed that is about the size of a single-auto carport (the 'cheap' roof thingie that is without any walls).

And he said that the amount he's spending on food has dropped by two thrids (it'd be closer to three fourths or more if he wasn't providing for his parents and in-laws).

The smaller Tomatoes that he's been raising is bigger than a softball.

And the fish, depending on the breed.. can get huge as well. it's so amazing, i can't wait to get things set up. but currently waiting for the lease on the apartment to release me in November. And they won't let me have a little garden on the terrace.
__________________
Fuck being a hero. Do you know what you get for being a hero? Nothing! You get shot at. You get a little pat on the back, blah blah blah, attaboy! You get divorced... Your wife can't remember your last name, your kids don't want to talk to you... You get to eat a lot of meals by yourself. Trust me kid, nobody wants to be that guy. I do this because there is nobody else to do it right now. Believe me if there was somebody else to do it, I would let them do it. There's not, so I'm doing it.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-08-2013, 10:50 PM
Webstral's Avatar
Webstral Webstral is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North San Francisco Bay
Posts: 1,688
Default

The water table can be found at varying depths. In the San Pedro River Valley (where Huachuca is located), the water table is fairly close to the surface. In 1997, the water table was significantly closer to the surface than it is today. Tucson was completely reliant on ground water until the CAP was finished, with the result that the water table was much further from the surface at the start of 1998.

Rae, you are completely right that water is going to be a defining issue in SAMAD. Much of the life of people tending their intensive gardens is going to revolve around getting water to the plants. Traditional irrigation is out of the question in most locations. Drip irrigation relies on pre-Exchange hardware. For the first couple of years after the Exchange, water is transported from a water head (well, tap still connected, etc.) to the plants. In some cases, this is a long way. Some ingenious folk fashion tanker bicycles--bikes with trailers which carry 55-gallon drums. The cyclists ride at night for six months of the year, delivering water to the fields where it is needed. Gardeners then fill containers on trolleys, carts, wagons, or backpacks and distribute the water by hand. It's a hard existence.

To make matters worse, the soil is awful in a lot of locations. Though the San Pedro River Valley used to be grassland, overgrazing towards the end of the 1800's turned the area into scrubland. By 1997, the good grassland soil is long gone.

Despite all-out efforts, the first harvest of 1998 is deplorable. Fortunately, the weather supports multiple harvests per annum (provided there's enough water). A few crops make a huge difference in the quality of the soil, according to folks who have studied this approach in other semi-arid locations. Also, the people who are not tilling the soil can work to improve the water distribution system so that less labor goes into getting water from Point A to the Point B and more goes into improving the yield.

Dryland agriculture is possible, though it's a risky enterprise. Winter rainfall amounts to several inches--six to seven. The land generally slopes towards the San Pedro. Controlling the run-off so that it soaks into the ground where the crops are being grown can add a few crucial inches to the total accumulation. This calls for some earth-moving. Obviously, somebody is going to be busy figuring out how to make the most of the scarce manpower when it comes to constructing berms to direct runoff out of the arroyos before it gets to the San Pedro River. Several years ago, I posted some findings on how other folks in the Third World grow crops in semi-arid climates. I won't repeat it here, other than to say that in some cases the contour of the land is exploited to multiple the precipitation that soaks into the ground where the crops are being grown, mcuh
__________________
“We’re not innovating. We’re selectively imitating.” June Bernstein, Acting President of the University of Arizona in Tucson, November 15, 1998.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.