Armored Gun System

[boogiedowndonovan]

Wow Sith, good stuff, quit being a lurker and educate us on the M8 AGS.

In regards to there being more LAV-75 fanboys vs. M8 AGS fanboys, I think it may be related to the popularity of V1/V2 vs. V2.2. If memory stands correct, LAV 75 is available in two editions of T2k (V1 and V2.0) where as M8 AGS is only available in 2.2. From what I recall of the surveys taken here on this board V1 and V2 are a lot more popular than 2.2.

As far as foreign users, Taiwan was interested. What about Turkey? I found this youtube vid dubbed in Turkish.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Yqxr3tqtog

The comments of the youtube vid note:

"Late in 1997, FNSS Defense Systems of Turkey and United Defense LP, teamed to offer the M8 AGS to the Turkish Land Forces Command (TLFC).

In September 1997, the second of the six prototype M8 AGS built with the highest protection Level III was demonstrated in Turkey during which it undertook firepower and mobility demonstrations for the TLFC."

Cold War Turkish Army was badly outgunned in the armor department, perhaps they would purchase some M8 AGS in the T2k timeline.

Maybe in RL, with a civil war on their eastern border as well as Kurdish militants, Turkey decided to upgrade their armor?

[pmulcahy11b]

The M-8 might make a good addition for Armored Division Scout units.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by boogiedowndonovan

In regards to there being more LAV-75 fanboys vs. M8 AGS fanboys, I think it may be related to the popularity of V1/V2 vs. V2.2. If memory stands correct, LAV 75 is available in two editions of T2k (V1 and V2.0) where as M8 AGS is only available in 2.2. From what I recall of the surveys taken here on this board V1 and V2 are a lot more popular than 2.2.

You've got me pegged.

Thanks in large part to this thread, the M8's growing on me a little bit- I have no beef with it for what it is. For me, it's more a matter of principle. The LAV-75 was in the v1.0 U.S.V.G. that I bought as an 11-year-old so it's burned into my imagination and inextricably linked with T2K; I didn't associate the M8 with T2K until I saw it in the v2.2 BYB about seven years ago. I only acquired the v2.2 rules because that's what the GM for my first T2K game was using and they turned out easier for me to decipher so I use them for my own PbP now- the v1.0 is what I base my T2KU on.

I will stop polluting this thread with LAV-75 fanboy love now.

[Tegyrius]

Originally Posted by boogiedowndonovan

Cold War Turkish Army was badly outgunned in the armor department, perhaps they would purchase some M8 AGS in the T2k timeline.

I like this, with the caveat that license-built hardware appeals to me more than something purchased outright. It allows more of a logistics base to be built up in odd locations, and it increases the opportunity for the local plant to design its own variants on the base chassis.

- C.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Tegyrius

I like this, with the caveat that license-built hardware appeals to me more than something purchased outright. It allows more of a logistics base to be built up in odd locations, and it increases the opportunity for the local plant to design its own variants on the base chassis.

As I said in post #68 of the thread LAV-75; Stingray; M8 AGS:

Originally Posted by Targan

The suspension and track system contains elements from the M113A3, the M2 Bradley and some M8-specific components. The hydromechanical transmission is from the Bradley but the engine, the 6V-92TA 6 cylinder Detroit Diesel, has 65% parts commonality with the 8V-92TA 8 cylinder Detroit Diesel used in the M977 HEMTT truck. The Cadillac Gage Stingray and Stingray II light tanks actually use the M977 HEMTT's 8V-92TA engine as well.

So if Turkey was at any point building M113s, M2 Bradleys and/or 8V-92TA diesel engines under licence, it makes the scenario of building M8s under licence that much more plausible.

[Targan]

Also, any opinions for or against the idea of merging the Armored Gun System, *another* US light tank for T2k? and LAV-75; Stingray; M8 AGS threads?

[James1978]

Originally Posted by boogiedowndonovan

Cold War Turkish Army was badly outgunned in the armor department, perhaps they would purchase some M8 AGS in the T2k timeline.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the V2 NATO Vehicle Guide section on TOEs in the back mention Turkish cavalry units equipped with Stingray light tanks?

[Sith]

The AGS was designed to be built on the Bradley production line to save money. During wartime the US government would want nothing but Bradleys rolling out of those doors. Any foreign orders would have to be filled before the US joined the fray.

The AGS was due to start LRIP in 1996, if I remember correctly. Something to think about if the Turkish are to set up their own factory.

[robert.munsey]

Yes that was correct. The LRIP was suppose to start in 1996 through 1997 with the first 28 vehicles. The full rate production was supposed to start after 1998 time frame.

I worked on the AGS, as part of a detail of 19K tankers that were tasked to conduct the same evaluation of crewman skills as the 19D in the 3-73rd. I worked for SFC Wagner from the project office after wards reviewing the manuals and the first POI. Then the Army sent me to Korea, which I put in for and I was suppose to go to MG school, then Jump Master enroute back to the battalion. All of that never materialized except for MG school enroute to Hood.

There are two things that burn me up about the project; one it was ready and met or exceeded most of the requirements. Two that Mike Sparks guy tossing the 'Buford' name around. It was never called the Buford at all and was not suppose to have a name. I remember the discussion in the office and the LTC in charge said it was not to have a name.


***Break***
Sith, Could you contact me offlist, there are some questions I want to ask you.

[Sith]

Originally Posted by robert.munsey

Sith, Could you contact me offlist, there are some questions I want to ask you.

IM Sent