WP units in China

[Webstral]

East German POWs might have been given a new lease on life following the October 1996 West German invasion of the DDR. Certainly, when the US enters the war at the beginning of December the political situation for the East Germans would have changed. Several possibilities come to mind.

1) The Chinese hand over all Germans to NATO for possible transition into the new Bundeswehr.
2) The Chinese form a German Liberation Army to fight against Soviet forces in China.
3) The Chinese release all East German prisoners

The first option seems the most likely to me. While a small force of East German communists fighting alongside their Chinese comrades would have some good propaganda value, handing the East Germans over to NATO would be a more cost-effective means of dealing with the logistical burden of caring for the East Germans. Also, NATO would be eager to have trained German-speaking manpower to draw on. At the very least, they could be used as replacements in units formerly with the East German Army.

The Chinese probably would keep some of these guys on hand, though. While the Soviets probably would have kept East Germans off the front lines, other Warsaw Pact formations would have been available. The Chinese might very well have had a go at using East Germans to entice other WP troops to cross the line. I doubt there would have been much success, but one never knows.

Other WP units in the Far East have some interesting possibilities. There would have been POWs from all WP countries in the fighting. The Chinese would have tried bringing out as many turncoats as possible. By late 1998. some Pact units in the Far East might have been effectively on their own. What would they do then?

[boogiedowndonovan]

Originally Posted by Webstral

East German POWs might have been given a new lease on life following the October 1996 West German invasion of the DDR. Certainly, when the US enters the war at the beginning of December the political situation for the East Germans would have changed. Several possibilities come to mind.

1) The Chinese hand over all Germans to NATO for possible transition into the new Bundeswehr.
2) The Chinese form a German Liberation Army to fight against Soviet forces in China.
3) The Chinese release all East German prisoners

The first option seems the most likely to me. While a small force of East German communists fighting alongside their Chinese comrades would have some good propaganda value, handing the East Germans over to NATO would be a more cost-effective means of dealing with the logistical burden of caring for the East Germans. Also, NATO would be eager to have trained German-speaking manpower to draw on. At the very least, they could be used as replacements in units formerly with the East German Army.

The Chinese probably would keep some of these guys on hand, though. While the Soviets probably would have kept East Germans off the front lines, other Warsaw Pact formations would have been available. The Chinese might very well have had a go at using East Germans to entice other WP troops to cross the line. I doubt there would have been much success, but one never knows.

Other WP units in the Far East have some interesting possibilities. There would have been POWs from all WP countries in the fighting. The Chinese would have tried bringing out as many turncoats as possible. By late 1998. some Pact units in the Far East might have been effectively on their own. What would they do then?

Yeah, I recall option 1 being mentioned by the DC working group.

I personally like option 2, I think I mentioned that to you Webstral awhile back. Maybe not every single captured East German defects or volunteers to fight in China, but enough to form a combat capable unit. Whether this unit would see front line action is another question as well. I can't imagine that any East Germans captured by the Soviets will be treated well, and we can imagine what a NATO POW's treatment would be like. I would envision this unit being used for PR and mop up duties.

But I do see sense in sending all former East Germans back. There would be a need for them in Germany, especially combat veterans who have worked closely with the Soviets. But it would also make sense for some of the former East Germans with technical skills or Russian language skills to remain in the Far East.

Isn't option 3 the same as option 1?

there would probably be more than a few turncoats or defectors from the Soviets and Warsaw Pact, but not on the level of the East Germans.

I dont have my books in front of me but it would be interesting to figure out what Czech and Hungarian units are in the Far East as well as what loyalties they may have.

[Webstral]

It would not surprise me at all if you put the idea in my head, bdd. I'm such a ruthless idea pirate that I don't always remember who the original source was.

[Olefin]

The idea of the WP fighting their way back home recalls what happened to the Czechs at the end of WWI - i.e. they got stranded in what was now a chaotic country in the midst of a civil war and had to fight their way home.

You can see how this would happen here as well - especially if the units sent to the Chinese front were composed of troops who might have been suspected of having pro-Western tendencies - i.e. western Czechoslovakian troops or troops whose relatives might have been involved in either the 1968 Czech or 1956 Hungarian uprsisings.

Units like that would be seen as the ones that could be thrown into the meatgrinder the easiest - similar to how the Soviets used penal battalions in WWII. I suspect survivors of those units (or the units themselves if they stayed intact) might not want to stay around once command and control started to evaporate in the mid 2000 time frame.

[Webstral]

I was thinking of that very Czech force.

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by Olefin

You can see how this would happen here as well - especially if the units sent to the Chinese front were composed of troops who might have been suspected of having pro-Western tendencies - i.e. western Czechoslovakian troops or troops whose relatives might have been involved in either the 1968 Czech or 1956 Hungarian uprsisings.

Units like that would be seen as the ones that could be thrown into the meatgrinder the easiest - similar to how the Soviets used penal battalions in WWII.

On the other hand, if the East German higher-ups thought about shifting sides, they might use the call for replacements to Siberia as an opportunity to get rid of the hard-core Communists among them. If those guys get killed over there, they won't be in the way once the door to the West is opened.

I was thinking of the Spanish "Blue" division that Franco sent to the Russian Front in 1941-43. He sent away the die-hard Fascist ideologues, who would have made trouble in Spain if he eroded the ideology in the face of the western Allies.

[Olefin]

Considering the fact that the two East German divisions sent in the first wave were destroyed there may not have been more from East Germany - we know they didnt send any in the proposed third wave - but I could see by the time of the second wave the East German Army trying go send as many die hard communists to the Chinese front as possible to get killed

Maybe they recruited a volunteer legion as you said and thus explaining why when the time came the East German Army went over wholeheartedly to NATO

[boogiedowndonovan]

kind of OT, but while we're on the subject of East Germans, I read somewhere on the internets ( and you know how reliable that is), the Warsaw Pact didn't want the East Germans to fight against the West Germans. Meaning they didn't trust the East Germans if they had to face West Germans. So if the balloon went up, the East Germans would deploy against the British, Dutch, Belgian and American formations.

anyone know about this?