Project Artillery

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Gelrir

An issue with any tracked vehicle is 'track life'. The M7 'Priest' uses Sherman running gear and tracks (generally speaking), with probably a 5000 km life.
http://english.iremember.ru/tankers/...triy-loza.html
Though there are Shermans and Sherman-derived vehicles in museums to steal from, plus of course the team's caches would have tracks. There's a company still making Sherman suspension and track (as of a year or three ago), for a variety of industrial equipment!

Likely a Division of Morrow Industries or a part of the Council of Tomorrow produces these for the civilian industry and for Allies that still use this suspension like Israel and Mexico. Soucy probably makes a rubber band track in this dimension as well.

Originally Posted by Gelrir

Speed might be an issue: if your M7 is in Alabama, and the Bad Guys are acting up in South Dakota, the 1900 kilometers is gonna take you at least 79 driving hours. Redesigning the track, suspension, gearboxes, steering, etc. to allow higher speed (from a presumably more powerful engine) and survivable ride ... you might as well make a whole new vehicle.
Maybe: mount the howitzer in an open-topped version of the Cadillac-Gage Stingray 'tank'. At least twice as fast as the M7. All sorts of tanks in WW2 had "gun carriage" conversions, many just a simple rifle-proof box around the front and two sides. The Stingray was generally described (if I recall correctly) as proof against 14.5mm ammo on the front (so presumably just rifle-proof elsewhere, at best).
If an open top is important: the V150 carrying the 81mm mortar has an open top.

Why? There is a Regional base and a Combined Group assigned to South Dakota as there is for Alabama.

That is what the planners provisioned for. The Morrow Air Force C-130s (Prime Base) could be used to make that transfer faster than tractor trailer lowboys could not be provisioned. However, the Planners would have considered the move unrealistic in the after effects of nuclear war. Roads would be clogged with damaged and abandoned vehicles. Bridges would be down or too damaged to support the combined weight. Highways, Freeways, and rail pass through major cities which would be impassable after the destruction and chaos.

The open top is important for game balance. It keeps you game from power creep as you have to throw better and more heavily armed NPCs at the players ubersuperadamantiumfusiondeathdealer500000ton_Bolo .

Originally Posted by Gelrir

Nice to hear the artillery will be traveling with an escort (if all goes according to plan). Which, of course, it won't! "Where's the rest of the team? Where's the truck with the rest of the ammo?"

Every module and campaign begins from the Bolt hole with Team Members expecting a functioning Morrow Project and linking up with their Combined Group. Then it all falls apart.

Originally Posted by Gelrir

Hmm, regular crew for the M7 is 7 people ... increased to 8 after the 2nd World War: http://afvdb.50megs.com/usa/pics/m7priest.html

The Project doesn’t get the luxury of all the personnel they could wish for. I’ll have a look, but likely advancing technology has made one of them redundant now, like a RTO.

Originally Posted by Gelrir

I see a little trailer being towed ... either the M8 ammunition trailer (armored) or the M10 ammunition trailer (unarmored, open-topped). Either trailer was nominally "one ton" and could carry 42 rounds of ammunition. I've worked up numbers on the M8 trailer for my campaign:
"2 wheel trailer M8 in use since World War 2. 3 meters long, 2.25 meters wide; the armored box is 1.66 meters wide, 1.5 meters long, 0.66 meters deep (1.6 cubic meters). Empty weight 1200 kg, payload 1000 kg. The wheels are 7.5x20 or the usual 9x20 CCKW type. No running brakes are fitted, but a hand parking brake is installed. Military towing lunette ring on front."
The manual:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/150148927/...RMORED-TRAILER

Kinda neat. I can see a use for one with project vehicles like the V-150 with TOW and the 81mm mortar.

Originally Posted by Gelrir

Ah ha: the M7 didn't normally carry a radio ... it used telephone lines or just plain "adjacentness" to communicate with the FDC. Easy enough to drop in a modern tactical radio, and an operator.
Oooh, the manual:
http://cdm16635.contentdm.oclc.org/u...name/63358.pdf

Probably because in movement and emplaced it was under battery command. At the time batteries were not dispersed since counter battery radar had yet to be invented. A Project vehicle will have a radio and Autonav as standard. Since there won’t be a need for fuel tanks, additional space is open for other equipment.

Originally Posted by Gelrir

You'll have to decide what ammo they have initially: giving them 69 rounds of tear gas and 44 rounds of propaganda leaflets would be mighty cruel!

it will be light on HE and HERA, some HEP, lots of colored smoke, Illum, and tactical CS. Some leaflet and a few fixed practice for crew drills. --

Originally Posted by Gelrir

Michael B.

[Gelrir]

It might be amusing and useful to work out what a 'generic Project leaflet' says. I suspect at least one shell would be dismantled by the Team to provide paper for other (hygiene-related) purposes.

Presumably if it's being fired, the 'target' is an area that is occupied by an unfriendly force, but contains literate people who might be influenced by a leaflet. The leafles have to be generic enough to use in almost any situation, and written to use the most basic vocabulary and grammar. Heh, perhaps there are various leaflet rounds in the M8 trailer: "This one is about slavery, this one's about women's rights, this one's about democracy, this one is a reward for helping Morrow Project personnel escape, this one is encouraging defectors, and this one is some kind of warning to leave the area immediately!"

Pondering a generic text:

"The Morrow Project wants to rebuild America. Freedom, peace, justice and liberty are the rights of every American. You should have all these things, but bad people are stopping you. You and your families are victims of these bad people. We can help with food, clean water, medicine and housing, and to remove the bad people. Bring this paper to us, and we will treat you well."

As for treads: I don't think the Project had to buy the company ... just a lot of treads, for (apparently) 50 or so M7B2 gun motor carriages. Or just build them in the Cadillac-Gage factories. Ah ha, the companies making treads are mostly in British Columbia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post%E2...ilian_variants

Here's the Morpac page on crawler equipment:

http://www.morpac.com/crawlers.shtml

Look at the treads and suspension. Notice in fact their description of track inventory!

--
Michael B.

[Gelrir]

And I don't think you have to go to Soucy for rubber band tracks:

http://www.rigsourceinc.com/Crawler_...r_carriers.asp

--
Michael B.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Gelrir

And I don't think you have to go to Soucy for rubber band tracks:

http://www.rigsourceinc.com/Crawler_...r_carriers.asp

--
Michael B.

Soucy makes a rubber band track for the M113 APC and new for the M3 Half Track as an off shoot of their business making rubber track for Agricultural tractors working in mud or soft ground.

If is am not mistaken they make rubber track for a few other military vehicles.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Gelrir

It might be amusing and useful to work out what a 'generic Project leaflet' says. I suspect at least one shell would be dismantled by the Team to provide paper for other (hygiene-related) purposes.

Presumably if it's being fired, the 'target' is an area that is occupied by an unfriendly force, but contains literate people who might be influenced by a leaflet. The leafles have to be generic enough to use in almost any situation, and written to use the most basic vocabulary and grammar. Heh, perhaps there are various leaflet rounds in the M8 trailer: "This one is about slavery, this one's about women's rights, this one's about democracy, this one is a reward for helping Morrow Project personnel escape, this one is encouraging defectors, and this one is some kind of warning to leave the area immediately!"

Pondering a generic text:

"The Morrow Project wants to rebuild America. Freedom, peace, justice and liberty are the rights of every American. You should have all these things, but bad people are stopping you. You and your families are victims of these bad people. We can help with food, clean water, medicine and housing, and to remove the bad people. Bring this paper to us, and we will treat you well."

As for treads: I don't think the Project had to buy the company ... just a lot of treads, for (apparently) 50 or so M7B2 gun motor carriages. Or just build them in the Cadillac-Gage factories. Ah ha, the companies making treads are mostly in British Columbia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post%E2...ilian_variants

Here's the Morpac page on crawler equipment:

http://www.morpac.com/crawlers.shtml

Look at the treads and suspension. Notice in fact their description of track inventory!

--
Michael B.

I suspect leaflets most would be generic warnings about radioactive fallout and chemical weapons. To be dropped on refugees who might be in the path of the stuff. Others might be warnings to hostile forces who may have turned against legitimate to surrender their arms.

The tracks production makes sense alot of former tanks have been converted to logging equipment. The cable arrays that are the draglines for hauling logs are usually Shermans.

[Gelrir]

I'm not sure how useful a generic warning against fallout would be, five years after an atomic war. "You should leave immediately, and head in a safe direction, away from the radiation."

The actual text might have assumptions or make promises that don't work in 2139. "Hmm, it says here sir that we're working closely with the Federal government. How does that work?"

Hmm:

"You are acting in an unlawful manner. Lay down your weapons immediately or face attack. This is your final warning."

Maybe peek at some Chiêu Hồi leaflets for inspiration, hmm. A generic 'you should give up' leaflet would take some thought. Heh, some of the Viet Cong leaflets aimed at Americans went more or less like: "Come to us, and you will get $10,000 and this girl", along with a pinup picture of a woman.

Another reason, perhaps, for the PsyOps teams to have a lot of silver and gold coins. Sure, you bought their cooperation, but sometimes it's better than fighting them.

--
Michael B.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Gelrir

I'm not sure how useful a generic warning against fallout would be, five years after an atomic war. "You should leave immediately, and head in a safe direction, away from the radiation."

The actual text might have assumptions or make promises that don't work in 2139. "Hmm, it says here sir that we're working closely with the Federal government. How does that work?"

Hmm:

"You are acting in an unlawful manner. Lay down your weapons immediately or face attack. This is your final warning."

Maybe peek at some Chiêu Hồi leaflets for inspiration, hmm. A generic 'you should give up' leaflet would take some thought. Heh, some of the Viet Cong leaflets aimed at Americans went more or less like: "Come to us, and you will get $10,000 and this girl", along with a pinup picture of a woman.

Another reason, perhaps, for the PsyOps teams to have a lot of silver and gold coins. Sure, you bought their cooperation, but sometimes it's better than fighting them.

--
Michael B.

Most of the time the correct direction is South and West. Counter the prevailing winds. Dropped in front of a refugee column it would read "Warning, approaching a significant fallout contamination zone! Turn back or apply safeguards." Then red or yellow smoke shells would be dropped on the known edge of the contamination zone closest to the refugee column.

Best case scenario an MP Chem OPs team using an M93 Fox vehicle or V-150 equivalent has mapped that terrain.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Gelrir

I'm not sure how useful a generic warning against fallout would be, five years after an atomic war. "You should leave immediately, and head in a safe direction, away from the radiation."

The actual text might have assumptions or make promises that don't work in 2139. "Hmm, it says here sir that we're working closely with the Federal government. How does that work?"

Hmm:

"You are acting in an unlawful manner. Lay down your weapons immediately or face attack. This is your final warning."

Maybe peek at some Chiêu Hồi leaflets for inspiration, hmm. A generic 'you should give up' leaflet would take some thought. Heh, some of the Viet Cong leaflets aimed at Americans went more or less like: "Come to us, and you will get $10,000 and this girl", along with a pinup picture of a woman.

Another reason, perhaps, for the PsyOps teams to have a lot of silver and gold coins. Sure, you bought their cooperation, but sometimes it's better than fighting them.

--
Michael B.

I would expect that leaflets meant to convince rogue police, citizens, or military to surrender or cease their actions in the 3-5 year time the Project was supposed to operate would be useless after 150 years.

[Gelrir]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

I would expect that leaflets meant to convince rogue police, citizens, or military to surrender or cease their actions in the 3-5 year time the Project was supposed to operate would be useless after 150 years.

Oh, I agree, but if those are the leaflets the team has ...

It's always interesting to see players try to stuff the square holes in the dam with round pegs!

--
Michael B.

[Gelrir]

Some interesting links on 'carrier' shells (the ones that disperse leaflets):

http://ww2propaganda.eu/spread5.htm

http://www.psywar.org/105mm.php

So apparently a 105mm shell could hold 500 leaflets of the 4.5" x 7" size. It also seems easy to load "when needed" rather than requiring the leaflets to be pre-loaded. So: the team gets X number of empty carrier shells, and Y number of stacks of various leaflets.

--
Michael B