Railways Recovery In TW2000

[stg58fal]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

Depends on how long the track has been out of service, but mainline rail should be in fairly good condition even after two to three years: A lot of the tricky bits - turnouts, and the like - might need some attention, but the bulk of the major mainlines even in the 90's was being converted over to concrete ties and welded 130 pound or higher rail in the US, and nearly all of Europe was converted over on the mains with the same as well. I would still take a gauging party down the tracks to confirm, especially where there might have been tracked vehicle activity on or near tracks, but I would feel reasonably confident to run down the tracks - slowly.

I guess it must depend on the location and possibly RR, because in five different states the places I generally see concrete ties are on curves. Concrete come with their own set of problems as far as maintenance goes, and they cost a lot more than wood. They're a pain to replace or change the hardware out on, compared to wood. I friggin hate concrete ties.

The condition of the rails themselves isnt the only concern I'd have. I prob should have gone more into detail, but I kinda got caught up playing World of Tanks.

Without maintenance crews, the natural cycles of hot and cold are going to play merry hell on the lines. Especially hot. Welded rail isn't immune to that, either. You're right in that sending a vehicle to check gauge ahead of the train would most likely work, esp if you've got nothing against moving your cargo slowly. It'd suck to hit a spot where the heat made the track all wonky, doing it's best impersonation of a sidewinder snake, at 55 mph when you're hauling a couple hundred thousand tons of coal. Or, you know, ANYTHING for that matter.

After seeing what a week of 95-105 degree temps can do with rail (it's fun to cut when it's 105 degrees out), I hate to imagine what several years without maintenance would result in.

After a winter or two with no maintenance, I'd definitely be sending someone who knew what they were about ahead of any traffic on jointed rail. But I really dislike jointed rail. So that could be my personal opinion creeping in.

Also, the welded vs jointed is greatly dependent on the RR. I've seen one that has jointed (I'm pretty sure 115 lb) rail on their mains. And not some "corn field to grain silo" RR, either, they've got track through about half of one of the biggest states in the US. 'Course, they seem to exist more as a tax write-off for a certain mining billionaire more than anything else, so it doesn't surprise me that their track is....eh....."unsat" (In my opinion, of course).

[Targan]

I watched a really interesting documentary just the other day, it was from series 2 of Strip the City, episode 3: Chicago Swamp City. The main topic of the program was the amazing shared cooling system for buildings in downtown Chicago, but part of it was also about how Chicago's elevated rail system is maintained and the systems in place to mitigate against the buckling of rails during extreme heat.

As the Aussie members of this forum have testified many times before, Australia is well accustomed to extreme temperature swings, mostly in the hot direction. We don't have anywhere near as many rail lines as the US and Europe do, but some of the ones we have are very long and some were built to support absolutely massive loads for the remote mines across the country. Heat buckling can be a real problem here too.

The question I have is can welded rail be adversely affected by extreme cold? Do rails contract in the cold as much as they expand in the heat, and if so, do the welds crack?

[stg58fal]

Originally Posted by Targan

The question I have is can welded rail be adversely affected by extreme cold? Do rails contract in the cold as much as they expand in the heat, and if so, do the welds crack?

Yes, but not to the extent that they are affected by heat. There's no cold equivalent to the pic you shared.

Welds can crack, yes. That's probably a combination of several factors. I've seen a few broken welds, but thus far breaks have usually been somewhere else.

[kalos72]

The other thing here is how fast you intend to run on those tracks?

I mean in open country, unsecured areas, I doubt you will be running at high speeds. I would think slow enough to be able to see things ahead of you pretty easily.

Speed on damaged or poorly maintained tracks would be important as well...

[Panther Al]

Originally Posted by stg58fal

I guess it must depend on the location and possibly RR, because in five different states the places I generally see concrete ties are on curves. Concrete come with their own set of problems as far as maintenance goes, and they cost a lot more than wood. They're a pain to replace or change the hardware out on, compared to wood. I friggin hate concrete ties.

The condition of the rails themselves isnt the only concern I'd have. I prob should have gone more into detail, but I kinda got caught up playing World of Tanks.

Without maintenance crews, the natural cycles of hot and cold are going to play merry hell on the lines. Especially hot. Welded rail isn't immune to that, either. You're right in that sending a vehicle to check gauge ahead of the train would most likely work, esp if you've got nothing against moving your cargo slowly. It'd suck to hit a spot where the heat made the track all wonky, doing it's best impersonation of a sidewinder snake, at 55 mph when you're hauling a couple hundred thousand tons of coal. Or, you know, ANYTHING for that matter.

After seeing what a week of 95-105 degree temps can do with rail (it's fun to cut when it's 105 degrees out), I hate to imagine what several years without maintenance would result in.

After a winter or two with no maintenance, I'd definitely be sending someone who knew what they were about ahead of any traffic on jointed rail. But I really dislike jointed rail. So that could be my personal opinion creeping in.

Also, the welded vs jointed is greatly dependent on the RR. I've seen one that has jointed (I'm pretty sure 115 lb) rail on their mains. And not some "corn field to grain silo" RR, either, they've got track through about half of one of the biggest states in the US. 'Course, they seem to exist more as a tax write-off for a certain mining billionaire more than anything else, so it doesn't surprise me that their track is....eh....."unsat" (In my opinion, of course).

I'm not a pro on railroads - my knowledge comes from modelling them - but I think these days Jointed is just a bad thing altogether. It was different back in the day (Up until, oh, the 50's perhaps) when the railroads could hire swarms of crew to make sure the lines was as in good a shape as you could possibly get from what I understand - I've seen period pics of double tracked mainlines where even the ballast was trimmed up in a neat perfectly straight line by crews as part of their job.

But speaking of ballast: this is what I think would doom most tracks without steady maintenance. Lack of traffic will help in keeping it together, sure, but weather is gonna do number on it - especially with washouts.

For example:

[stg58fal]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

I'm not a pro on railroads - my knowledge comes from modelling them - but I think these days Jointed is just a bad thing altogether. It was different back in the day (Up until, oh, the 50's perhaps) when the railroads could hire swarms of crew to make sure the lines was as in good a shape as you could possibly get from what I understand - I've seen period pics of double tracked mainlines where even the ballast was trimmed up in a neat perfectly straight line by crews as part of their job.

But speaking of ballast: this is what I think would doom most tracks without steady maintenance. Lack of traffic will help in keeping it together, sure, but weather is gonna do number on it - especially with washouts.

For example:

Damn. At first I thought that was a serious mudhole, and I was going to say that track really needs to see an undercutter crew. Then I scrolled down a little bit.

Washouts are a real PITA, and I would imagine they would be one of the more difficult maintenance projects (aside from bridges) post-Apoc, since most of the machinery for dealing with them and getting the track back how it needs to be is going to be rusting in a siding somewhere. Yeah, ballast can be transported by wagon and dumped, spread, and tamped by hand, but damn that's going to suck. Guess that's what slav.....er, I mean, criminal and POW labor is for.

There are still crews that make the ballast neat, it's just usually reserved for main lines and sidings that see a lot of traffic, and it's not something that most maintenance personnel do since there are dedicated crews for it. Backtracks and industry tracks have a lower priority. There is a surfacing crew (who tamp the ballast between the ties and clean everything up) with the other maintenance crews, like the big tie gangs or rail gangs. The machines are kinda cool to watch when they're doing their thing, too. Just don't stand behind the ballast regulator when it's brooming the track. ANYWHERE behind one, I mean. They can throw rocks with a pretty good velocity a fair distance.

Jointed rail is OK I guess....it works for slower trains or on track with lower volume of traffic (from what I've seen....there's probably a formula somewhere that says whether jointed is OK for X tons of trains at Y speed or something). I just don't like it because it seems like the joints are generally where things go wrong, I'm pretty sure that trains have to run slower on it, and welded just looks neater.

[Brother in Arms]

I have always wanted to have a game that used a Scaved up Hi-rail truck preferably diesel (so it could use bio diesel or methane) but it would be great. Just enough for a few PC (maybe 3-4 max) and a little bit of gear and only two ways to go.

I think I might use this in a game I am thinking of running a D20 based post apocalyptic game based in semi-modern Vermont.

Brother in Arms

[Badbru]

Originally Posted by Brother in Arms

I have always wanted to have a game that used a Scaved up Hi-rail truck preferably diesel (so it could use bio diesel or methane) but it would be great. Just enough for a few PC (maybe 3-4 max) and a little bit of gear and only two ways to go.

I think I might use this in a game I am thinking of running a D20 based post apocalyptic game based in semi-modern Vermont.

Brother in Arms

I've heard of GM's railroading the characters but come on!

[Brother in Arms]

Badbru

hahaha

yeah but they at least will have a vehicle and it can also be driven off the rails (at least potentially)

Brother in Arms

[Bullet Magnet]

Originally Posted by Badbru

I've heard of GM's railroading the characters but come on!

If you're gonna do it....do it! Why waste time being subtle?

Time for an old song, with new lyrics:
Putting PCs on the railroad, for the game they'll play
Putting PCs on the railroad, they can only go my way...

[WallShadow]

The first time you make a scheduled run between settlements (cantonments/forts/etc), you have created an expectation of "civilization", a restoration of a measure of the pre-war ease of transportation and mobility. When word spreads of the run, passengers, merchants, farmers, manufacturers, and people with mail will flock to the railheads with their packages.
And once the pattern has been established and proven, public anticipation will drive a greater feeling of "civilization"--think "the Wells-Fargo wagon" in "The Music Man", or Sears & Roebuck's Catalog and the dreams it generated of items that could be had from far away.
A further result would be the extension of settlement, and hopefully, security, along the rail path from both ends. Concerned parties would be watching toward that direction and would probably institute patrols to ensure continued safe service. Urban Sprawl, but along an expanding transportation conduit.
Rail service would then become a Holy Grail for aspiring settlements located near existing rail lines, a bandwagon they could jump onto to boost their town's prosperity. You might see a small town scavenging disused rails and ties from one line to connect to a prospective "live" line to get in on the action.
Lots of adventure opportunities for players to assist various groups, ride shotgun on cargoes/escort passengers, get a vaccine to a town with an outbreak of disease, or hijack a valuable shipment (Firefly--"the Train Job"), etc.
The train service could also serve as a plot device--"He's coming into town on the Tuesday run--and he'll be gunning for you!", or as a medium for drama--"They all stabbed him, Inspector--it's the only explanation possible!". The _building_ of the rail lines may provide inspiration--two towns or business concerns racing to finish their connection first, with all of the dirty tricks, sabotage, and outright murder that could entail.