Cooperville Part I:

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by .45cultist

Yes, but there are rules for industry in the new rules, so I'm bundling items I had in third edition and trying to see what's required. The third edition kind of hand waved this area.

Third edition does have broad generalizations for A, B, C, D, E tech levels. Then a chart for determining tech level of an unknown encounter. Most common are the least being D or E and really rare to meet A. Only the Frozen Chosen, Snake Eaters, and other Morrow personnel were A tech level if I remember correctly.

I don't have a copy of 4E for myself yet.

[Gelrir]

Groups with explicitly "Tech Level A" in the Third Edition:

• Snake Eaters - that's what they had in their bunkers
• Rich Five - they were frozen with Tech A stuff, but if you presume the KFS are the Rich Five, they could be making some Tech A stuff 150 years after The Big Oops.
• The Morrow Project
• Wandering Warlock

(The Frozen Chosen are Tech Level C. And I too haven't gotten the 4th Edition.)

So this community is manufacturing:

• smokeless ammunition, suitable for gas-operated weapons
• semi-automatic handguns
• gas-operated assault rifles

They are thus either making/mining, have made/mined, or have been given a hoard of:

• metals needed for all of the above (ordnance steel, zinc, brass, lead, tool steel, etc.)
• chemicals needed for all the above (nitrates, acids, sulfur, at least; lubricants for the machinery and the weapons)
• a gun-factory worth of machine tools
• dimensioned drawings for the weapons and ammo, with tolerances and units that more or less match the machinery in the gun-factory, the materials and processes available, and the skills of the workers

And they have some way to power a gun factory, an ammunition plant, and possibly a chemical plant. Plus they have skilled employees: for example, Para-Ordnance nowadays has about 60-65 workers, and they clearly don't mine their own iron ore, make their own ammunition, produce their own electrical power, etc.

I don't agree this has to be post-recovery (it's not all of America, after all; and many campaigns feature the KFS having all these capabilities) -- but it seems a bit ... much, for one community. Is this part of a larger nation: like, say, the Connecticut Valley in the early United States? Or something established ab initio by the Morrow Project?

"Rules for industry", mmm? How do those work?

--
Michael B.

[.45cultist]

The 4TH kept all that and has economic, resources rules centered around X amount of labor and materials for Y item at tech level Blank. economics center on the requirements for a kg of black or smokeless powder. I'm not doing the rules justice. Considering for 3RD ed. I was scrounging small industry, high school science and shop teachers for machinery and most ammo cases, bullets. And I had jewelers making the cups, copper foil and anvil for modern primers. I hope with this to have a 1940's- 1950's mix of tech. The people the team will encounter use black powder rifles for hunting because it's cheap and have M1911's under their jackets. BTW I forgot 230gr ball in the list. Perhaps the commercial M1911 load I read about: 230gr. cupro-nickel JFP@ 830-850fps.

[kalos72]

Sounds like I might have to get the 4thE...some good data there.

[.45cultist]

A few on the yahoo group were critical, but I'm trying to give it a fair shake. The industry rules were needed for reconstruction scenarios. Now rules for how the fusion forge improves things might be in a Starnaman module.

[kalos72]

Since I get sooooo deep in the details, HOW you actually rebuild society was always a sticking point in my T2k stuff too.

Even to the point of reaching out the HARN world and trying to modify it to fit...so any Morrow efforts into the same would be nice to see.

Shame I have to buy it to find out if its worth it.

[.45cultist]

It's larger than the 3rd ed., and costs more.Iit has some expanded gear, MOLLE, IBV, M82 Barrett, G17, Humvee. The M26 frag is replaced with the M67.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Gelrir

I don't agree this has to be post-recovery (it's not all of America, after all; and many campaigns feature the KFS having all these capabilities) -- but it seems a bit ... much, for one community. Is this part of a larger nation: like, say, the Connecticut Valley in the early United States? Or something established ab initio by the Morrow Project?

"Rules for industry", mmm? How do those work?

--
Michael B.

It is a whole lot much for one community.

The KFS is a nation. The leadership started after the war and has had 150 years to prepare and advance to where they are.

Granted they are self limiting because the Five are self serving and withhold advancements or resources to keep the common people in line.

Any community that is at the village level can and should have one possibly two industries that they do well. Something that is likely under the categories of Food, Shelter, and Clothing.

Trade in the PAW (Post Apocalyptic World) is going to be salvage or the occasional surplus. Anything up for trade is spare or the village can't use it or eat it.

Mining coal by hand can be one. Smelting salvaged metals could be another. Selling off or trading off trouble makers or selling themselves into indentured servitude for aid.

A successful agrarian village may export grain and cheese but, only for wool products or coal.

A successful barter village on a major city may trade copper wire, rubber tires, and women for meat, cheese, and flour.

The KFS may trade buffalo rifles but only for refined metal or functional mechanical devices like microwaves, radios, industrial kitchen equipment.

Etc.

[kalos72]

T2k had the same vibe...I disagree.

No reason why a village with the right combination of resources, can't succeed in PAW.

I think more importantly it comes down to leadership. But my Morrow experience is limited I have to admit.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by kalos72

T2k had the same vibe...I disagree.

No reason why a village with the right combination of resources, can't succeed in PAW.

I think more importantly it comes down to leadership. But my Morrow experience is limited I have to admit.

It goes against the theme of the game.

[kalos72]

How so? Again please forgive me I am a Morrow newb...

But I thought that game is about the fight to recover....not the ultimate failure and desolation of never being able to improve your standing.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by kalos72

How so? Again please forgive me I am a Morrow newb...

But I thought that game is about the fight to recover....not the ultimate failure and desolation of never being able to improve your standing.

The game is set in a post apocalypse 150 years after a nuclear war that lasted several months. Every major city most minor cities and all the industry or natural resources were pulverized.

In addition to nuclear winter, loss of crops and services, the usual illness that spring up when clean drinking water is scarce...... Biowarfare plagues were unleashed world wide.

5% of the world population survives. The survivors are mean, selfish, and self centered, also rightfully suspicious of anyone they meet.

The Humanity and Motivation (H&M) is low for any encounter group is low.

Typically there is little to salvage except for raw materials.

The MP comes out into this world as the altruistic do good nice guys.

They are up against a neo barbarian mongol horde (the Krell) and a fascist police state (the KFS), along with groups like Razers that are anti technology.

They have to convince these types to work toward the common good and cooperate.

MP is very much a thinking game as much as a combat simulation.

Without the specifics of the setting (dangerous encounters and lack of nearly anything) it just becomes an AD&D adventure in the wilderness.

[kato13]

Originally Posted by kalos72

How so? Again please forgive me I am a Morrow newb...

But I thought that game is about the fight to recover....not the ultimate failure and desolation of never being able to improve your standing.

Morrow is about recovery, but the initial knock back is much harder than what is presented in T2k. Subsequent actions by the major bad players further retard technological development.

After the war you have a 95-99% population loss in most areas. The first decades of recovery were a nightmare where regions would have to make very hard choices about what skills needed to be maintained and nurtured.

So 20 years down the line when the first post war generation is entering the workforce, what do you chose to teach them. Raw materials are coming in at a trickle. Wide ranging trade networks have not been established. Paper books are getting worn out with no way to replace them.

I think the greatest loss of "know how" occurs during this time. I would say the average tech level would be early/mid 1800s. Yes you might have pockets that do much better in one technological area.

So you have a couple of million people spread out across this wide nation, with some pretty bad folks (KFS and Krell) with higher technology trying to knock civilization back a bit further so they can maintain their advantage.

IMO The theme of Morrow is you are coming in and trying to push things forward which have generally stagnated for 120 or so years. If you wake up with 1980s technology and the world is generally in the 1950s you don't have the same effect as if they used 1850s technology.

I think people here will be happy to discuss any questions you may have on Morrow, but I highly recommend picking up both the old and new stuff.