Aircraft Carrier Question

[pmulcahy11b]

To me, the limiting factor on flyable aircraft is not availability -- there are probably flyable aircraft sitting idle all over the world. The problem is the tremendous amount of resources required to keep them in an operational condition, and supplying them with the fuel necessary for operation (think of how much fuel an F-15 consumes in full afterburner!). Even a light aircraft like a Piper Cub needs more maintenance, parts, and fuel than most communities are capable of giving it. That's why the Baron hardly ever flies his Mi-8.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

To me, the limiting factor on flyable aircraft is not availability -- there are probably flyable aircraft sitting idle all over the world. The problem is the tremendous amount of resources required to keep them in an operational condition, and supplying them with the fuel necessary for operation

Agreed. I'd always envisioned surviving air bases / airports still having small numbers of potentially operational aircraft but lacking the means / resources to get them airborne. Potentially it might even be possible to find a helicopter hidden away somewhere (in a barn for example) but without fuel it's as much use as a chocolate teapot (although finding said fuel can make a campaign in its own right)

[Olefin]

It really depends on if you have mechanics available - there were lots of examples in WWII of US aircraft mechanics keeping planes flying in the early days of WWII with insufficent parts - they either got them from hangar queens or they made them or improvised them

now that might mean you have six F-8's getting turned into hanger queens to keep two flying - but it can be done if you have the mechanics who have the know how

[Rainbow Six]

Yeah, but having the best mechanics in the world wont do you any good if you have no fuel...

[Olefin]

there will always be some fuel depending on what areas you are in - MilGov still has some reserves in the US (see A River Runs Thru It for an example)

and places like the UK, Iran, Saudi, Kenya will still be producing fuel - even in the US there are some refineries still working - but the amount would greatly reduce ops and what can be carried - i.e. there is a big difference between fuel to fly F-15's across the Atlantic versus fly them on limited missions for recon or air support

so you might have enough fuel for limited ops - but if you ever had to surge everything you had that was still operational fully fueled it would be exhaust your fuel for some time to come (i.e. several months to years depending on the area)

and let me be clear - I dont mean that goes everywhere - for most of Europe fuel is a thing of the past and will be for quite some time outside of the UK and France

[Rainbow Six]

I agree with you...I think the relevant point here is that from 1998 onwards in my opinion the front line air forces aren't going to be taking 1960's / 70's era aircraft out of storage sites as it's not so much the lack of aircraft that is limiting operations as the lack of fuel...remaining airbases may well still have small numbers of F16's / Mig 29's / Tornados etc which they are struggling to find fuel for as it is so probably don't need more aircraft - they need the fuel. Iirc there is a reference in the Twilight Encounters supplement to the Soviets still having operational Mig 29's used in a photo recon role - Shutterbug I think it was called.

I think the people thay may be more interested in getting old planes out of storage are more likely to be those in areas well away from the front lines where modern combat aircraft are in short supply, for example US forces in California or Texas, both of whom have access to the required fuel but might be lacking in aircraft to utilise said fuel.

The real winners are those that have the aircraft and the fuel...might be interesting to consider what might have remained in the US at places like Top Gun or the Adversary / Aggressor Squadrons (e.g. VFC 13 at Miramar, VFA 127 at Fallon or VFC 12 at Oceana, all of which I think would have operated the F18 in the T2k timeline.

[Olefin]

as for parts - that was one thing that Frank Frey mentioned was happening in Kenya - that they were using East African craftsmen to basically make parts in a very time consuming fashion for the aircraft and ships they had left operational - explaining why the US would be still having men there in addition to the refinery

by the way - where is the UK's main training facility for the RAF?