The missing generation.

[kato13]

The thought that I cover in this thread actually came to me from a story that I have been mulling writing for a while. I realized today that it could have use within the Morrow Project as well.

So the project is looking at recovery in the first few years after a nuclear war. Causalities from such a war will be highest among the oldest and youngest perhaps nearing 100%.

What is the morality of Cryofreezing 8-12 year old orphans who the project might have taken a caretaker role for. These children could fill a population gap that the project might find in having reproductive citizens 10-15 years after the war.

I have additional thoughts about gathering orphans from across the world (less likley to attract attention) and training them in English and other survival skills before freezing them.

Is this idea totally off the rails or is this something you could see the project doing.

[RandyT0001]

I figure the Project would expect to have those born after the dip in population to have more children to replace those lost by war. However, if the project did do something like this the Breeders would be interested in acquiring any pre-war children for their purity, even to the point of attacking the facility where they are frozen.

[ArmySGT.]

Wouldn't the Project have or have sponsored sperm and egg banks?

The ones that sort people by education, achievements, and success.

[welsh]

To be honest, I think that education of children is a core Morrow goal. Bad enough that most of your team has a shelf life of 20-30 years, what about the next generation?

I would also point to an old post-apoc book- The Earth Abides- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Abides
which raises the problem of raising future generations in a world that has broken down, and especially one in which there is much potential to salvage.

[stormlion1]

I always figured the Project was more interested in rebuilding basic Infrastructure first, teaching the survivors to use it. (Ie. Plant crops, teach accountant to grow and harvest food, etc) with a secondary consideration in teaching skills beyond that. A recon team finds a worthy group, sends info back to another team who moves in and rebuilds and teaches, then moves on after a short time top the next spot the Recon Team finds. There interest in children would stop right there as Morrow Resources are finite.

[kato13]

Originally Posted by stormlion1

There interest in children would stop right there as Morrow Resources are finite.

I agree resources are finite, but children who are about to enter working age, are free from radiation inflicted genetic damage, and can reproduce themselves seem like a logical addition to finite resources.

Crops are great because 1 seed can become 100
2 healthy humans can lead to 6 or 7
1 tractor eventually will fail (unless project magic can produce baby tractors )

I don't see that children being woken up at the same time as the rest of the project, but once communities have started to settle, and children are surviving childbirth again, I can see the kids being introduced into the communities to fill the age range where children might be scarce.

It may not be a big part of the project, maybe just 200 children at each regional base.

[stormlion1]

The other side of the coin is the possibility of dependent's being frozen and there the ones that fulfill your requirement of a new generation of non-radioactive people. I could see specially made Bolt Holes just for that purpose near Regional or Prime and can't be awoken by a signal but by someone actually digging them out. Not really for the various teams out across the country but for scientists and Fobbits at the various more or less permanent Morrow Bases.

[Askold]

Having some kids in the project would help with the age cap between new children being born and the Project members aging if they are unable to recruit/find outsiders with children. But it would also take up more resources and in case of an accident it might be that only the kids wake up in some facility leaving them in a pinch.

Another way to deal with the age cap would be to have more adults kept frozen and to wake up some of them in a later stage of the Project. That way no matter which group wakes up they are made up from trained personnel and aren't burdened with kids. (At the start at least.)

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Wouldn't the Project have or have sponsored sperm and egg banks?

The ones that sort people by education, achievements, and success.

So you would want the Project to start doing eugenics?

...Actually, that could give a whole new scenario for the rpg if the players find out that there is some splinter faction or inner circle of the Project that was into eugenics and decided to use the project as a way to get rid of the undesirables and make way for the "master race" take over the earth. (wether that would be generic aryan neo-nazis or just some non-ethnic "pure" humans free of genetic disorders etc.) Then they would have to find out how many people in the Project are part of this faction and wether or not they can trust their comrades. (Ok, this idea may have been influenced partially by me having seen the second Captain America movie recently.)

[mikeo80]

IMHO, as I read TMP, I see more of a "teach a man to fish" mentality. Finding those that have needed skills and preserving those skills. A civil engineer now is probably more useful that a potential one.

IF you go with the later war date of 2017, and the advancement of computers and storage devices, I can see more and more effort being put into preserving knowledge.

My $0.02

Mike

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Askold

So you would want the Project to start doing eugenics?

No.

I don't see the point in disappearing children to repopulate a devastated American population with known inheritable disorders.

The surviving population is suffering radiation poisoning as well as genetic disorders due to radiation exposure. The rate of spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) is going to be very high among survivors of child bearing age. Bring these children out of cryosleep at war day + 10 years, 20 years, and 30 years allows a phase in of healthy stock. Stock which by the way would have to survive the "Typhoid Mary's" in the war survivors too.

[stormlion1]

The United States isn't exactly a continental wasteland so there will be plenty of people suffering from minimal amounts of radiation damage or mutation so 'breeding stock' shouldn't be a priority. The Morrow Teams themselves are inherently uncorrupted 'breeding stock' themselves. New Breeding Stock for cattle or Horses or Chickens or whatnot would have more priority I would think in the long run and would by definition be spread out more to teams that would have a use for them than a bunch of little kids they would have to take care of once there awoken.

[Askold]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

No.

I don't see the point in disappearing children to repopulate a devastated American population with known inheritable disorders.

The surviving population is suffering radiation poisoning as well as genetic disorders due to radiation exposure. The rate of spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) is going to be very high among survivors of child bearing age. Bring these children out of cryosleep at war day + 10 years, 20 years, and 30 years allows a phase in of healthy stock. Stock which by the way would have to survive the "Typhoid Mary's" in the war survivors too.

a) That would still count as eugenics.
b) If you were only interested in not having genetic disorders why did you specify picking donors with education, achievements and success?


Stormlion1:
Ooh, good point about farm animals, some stored sperm for cows, horses etc. just in case the breeding stock has become too small.

[stormlion1]

Originally Posted by Askold

a) That would still count as eugenics.
b) If you were only interested in not having genetic disorders why did you specify picking donors with education, achievements and success?


Stormlion1:
Ooh, good point about farm animals, some stored sperm for cows, horses etc. just in case the breeding stock has become too small.

Actually that is in one of the books I think. Fall Back if I remember correctly.

[kato13]

Originally Posted by Askold

a) That would still count as eugenics.
b) If you were only interested in not having genetic disorders why did you specify picking donors with education, achievements and success?

While I suppose such filtration or source DNA would technically be eugenics, I think it is par for the course in general when people are choosing samples to use. My experience in this area is limited to cliches used in television, but wanting a donor who is successful (say a Harvard Grad) seems to be the norm.

That gets a little weird for me in terms or projects goals to do in humans. IVF within the project would be complicated and expensive (as it is in real life). I can see some use in animals, but I think that is about as far as my project would go in that area.

I suppose the final decision would depend on my timeline and if there was some project "magic" that made it cost effective.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Askold

a) That would still count as eugenics.
b) If you were only interested in not having genetic disorders why did you specify picking donors with education, achievements and success?


Stormlion1:
Ooh, good point about farm animals, some stored sperm for cows, horses etc. just in case the breeding stock has become too small.

Simply because this is the "Donation" criteria for a sperm bank.

Minimum a Bachelors Degree, minimum income threshold (waived for Graduate students), free of congenital disorders.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by stormlion1

Actually that is in one of the books I think. Fall Back if I remember correctly.

Correct. There is a "agricultural recovery" site run by the Morrow Project.