5th US Army 1999 Offensive

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

M1 production happened at the Detroit Arsenal Tank Plant in Warren MI, till 1996.

Given that we were in hot per the T2k timeline I'd wager it was still a 24/7 affair up until it got nuked (along with Lima) in Nov. '97.

The MI production plant is still the Lima Army Tank Plant, which has produced M1 since 1980.

Not any more; it's been shut down too.

The Army is not and has no plans to permanently close the Joint Systems Manufacturing Center, JSMC. Army officials are planning to end U.S. Army tank production in the JSMC from 2015 to 2016 because the U.S. Army has built all of the tanks that the troops need, given the current Army force structure, which dictates how many vehicles it needs in Active and Reserve Units as well as Contingency storage in case the vehicles are needed for a war. The Army did not convince Congress that it did not need more tanks in 2011, so in 2013, Congress funded an additional tanks to be built at a cost of ~$270M. The Army plans on building those tanks and parking them in storage. At the end of the day there will be ~200 "brand new" tanks in storage because the Army reduced the quantity of tanks it needed in its Force Structure - how many of each vehicle and number of troops, etc. Additionally, there are ~4000 tanks in storage in the desert. The plant will continue to produce other products including the Israeli Merkava and Abrams Foreign Military tanks during that timeframe. The Army is considering layaway of the plant if there is a gap with no additional production between 2013 and 2017. The Army will layaway unused equipment. General Dynamics Land Systems, which currently operates in the government owned factory, opposed the closure, arguing that suspension of operations would increase long-term costs and reduce flexibility.[7][8] Recapitalization efforts during the war have resulted in the youngest fleet age in the history of the Abrams program. The average age of the Abrams tank in U.S. Army service less than two years old. Plant closure would cost the Army $822 million in closing and re-opening costs, which is far less money than continuing production and storage costs for tanks that won't be used.[9] If passed, a bill currently in the U.S. Senate would allocate $272 million in funds toward the plant to allow it to continue regular operations through July 2014. This bill did pass and GDLS is lobbying for an additional $180M.[10]

(wackypedia, but their sources are straight from congressional record, etc. on this one)

With that said we've got 2000 M1 hulls sitting in the desert in California doing nothing but getting really hot during the day and cold during the night.

[rcaf_777]

I don't recall seeing Lima or warren on the list of nuke targets

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

I don't recall seeing Lima or warren on the list of nuke targets

There's a Challenge module that notes Lima got hit but the strike missed the plant directly; a team is sent in to reconnoiter the factory and make off with any operational tanks (there's rumors that there's an entire brigade's worth of M1s that were on rolling stock when the missiles fell; it's actually just equipment and tooling - I think, I don't have the issue handy).

Anyway, Warren is within biking distance of downtown Detroit; it's going to burn, and then be covered with radioactive fallout.

Also IIRC Howling Wilderness only notes "targets that were hit with 1.5 megaton or above" blasts; a pattern around Detroit to make sure all industrial targets were hit, like from an SS-20 with 750kt warheads, is a near-certainty.

But, again, even discounting that, Warren is in the fallout radius.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

There's a Challenge module that notes Lima got hit but the strike missed the plant directly; a team is sent in to reconnoiter the factory and make off with any operational tanks (there's rumors that there's an entire brigade's worth of M1s that were on rolling stock when the missiles fell; it's actually just equipment and tooling - I think, I don't have the issue handy).

Challenge issue 56 - Lima Incident.

-- SPOILER - highlight text to view --
"The 30 M-1s reported turn out to be three operational M-1s, and only one has complete armament."
-- END OF SPOILER --

[kato13]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

Also IIRC Howling Wilderness only notes "targets that were hit with 1.5 megaton or above" blasts; a pattern around Detroit to make sure all industrial targets were hit, like from an SS-20 with 750kt warheads, is a near-certainty.

Actually it is a 500kt threshold.

Someone listed the warheads the sovs had in 1989 and there were surprisingly few that were strategic and below that threshold. IIRC only two platforms had versions had sub 500kt options and the max estimated warhead count was still well below 200.

Anything could have happened between 1989 (the USSR peak warhead count) and our fake 1997, but given those numbers I always assumed that the non listed strikes would not outnumber the listed ones (as there were thousands of Strategic 500kt+ warheads).

[kalos72]

I wonder if there is a complied list of manufacturing plants for the major combat systems out there?

Tanks, M2 / M113 / HMMWV's / 20MM+ cannons / M2HB's / Mark 19's / M40's, etc...

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by kalos72

I wonder if there is a complied list of manufacturing plants for the major combat systems out there?

Tanks, M2 / M113 / HMMWV's / 20MM+ cannons / M2HB's / Mark 19's / M40's, etc...

I think AAI had a factory in...Rockville, MD? I know that's where they're located in real life, anyway. (AAI is the chief manufacturer of what we'd know as the LAV-75).

[Olefin]

brought the M1 tank factory thread back to life - have a feeling as I said it all depends on how much inventory they had as to how many they can make - and I doubt the GDW guys new how much inventory your typical vehicle production plant, especially one in the middle of the 90's had on hand before they switched to just in time production and LEAN methods

As to plants that didnt get hit by nukes - GDW had some very obvious targets survive - for instance they made it very clear that the targets mentioned in PA in Howling Wildnerness and Allegheny Uprising were the only targets hit in PA - period. Which means that the Russians never hit the United Defense plant at York, let alone the Harley plant there and the Caterpillar plant - thats a heck of a trifecta to leave intact - (and lets not even mention not hitting Carlisle or Three Mile Island or Harrisburg - blow those bridges at Harrisburg and you really screw up traffic thru PA)

[chico20854]

Originally Posted by kalos72

I wonder if there is a complied list of manufacturing plants for the major combat systems out there?

Tanks, M2 / M113 / HMMWV's / 20MM+ cannons / M2HB's / Mark 19's / M40's, etc...

Coming in REAL late on this thread... but...

I've got "strategic resource" lists for both NATO and the Pact. The NATO one is still definitely a work in progress, while the Pact one is definitely more complete. Both have about 3000 sites on them... airbases, C3I installations, power plants, refineries, steel mills, truck, tractor, bulldozer, locomotive and automotive assembly plants and a dozen or so other categories. I'm going to fiddle around on Google Maps after I get the website back up and see if I can make it available for browsing.