US Army wants new hand gun

[copeab]

The magazine doesn't have to go in the hand grip ...

[Targan]

Originally Posted by copeab

The magazine doesn't have to go in the hand grip ...

Yes indeed. The 5.7mm FN PDW and the G11 both have novel magazine positions. The latter is a rifle obviously but the FN PDW isn't all that larger than a pistol.

[Webstral]

This is a little tangential, but the comment about practice resonated with me. The US Army has huge sums of money for all kinds of marginal frippery, but the Army gets very stingy when it comes to ammunition for practicing. It's absurd. The Army would rather ship mountains of ammunition into combat areas than fire half a mountain in training deep in the rear. How many casualties are caused by rifle fire is only one consideration. Soldiers who are confident in their ability to handle their primary weapon are better soldiers in general as a result. Confidence and the habits instilled by constant training yield major dividends when the soldier is subjected to the stress of combat. A little ammunition goes much further when the rifleman has been habituated to firing aimed shots.

We've had this discussion about having a Marksmanship Corps and a Physical Fitness Corps so that the fundamentals of soldiering are being taught by people dedicated to nothing else, so I won't belabor the point here.

[CDAT]

Originally Posted by Targan

Yes indeed. The 5.7mm FN PDW and the G11 both have novel magazine positions. The latter is a rifle obviously but the FN PDW isn't all that larger than a pistol.

If by FN PDW you are talking about the FN P90 it has a 10.1 to 10.4 inch barrel (depending on source) and a full stock. I have one of the civilian legal ones (only visable differance is the 16 inch barrel) and it is much larger than any pistol that I have ever seen. If you are talking about the FN 5.7 Pistol it has it magazine in the normal location.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by CDAT

If by FN PDW you are talking about the FN P90 it has a 10.1 to 10.4 inch barrel (depending on source) and a full stock. I have one of the civilian legal ones (only visable differance is the 16 inch barrel) and it is much larger than any pistol that I have ever seen. If you are talking about the FN 5.7 Pistol it has it magazine in the normal location.

I was thinking about the C 96 Mauser.

[CDAT]

Originally Posted by copeab

I was thinking about the C 96 Mauser.

There is also the Scorpion SMG that is very close to handgun size but has the magazine in the "normal" SMG spot.

[Sanjuro]

Two downsides with moving the magazine forward:
1. Barrel length becomes more restricted;
2. Centre of gravity moves forward away from the user's hand.
The Mauser C96 was often used as a carbine replacement with the wooden holster used as a stock, so problem 2 was countered. Problem 1 was never an issue because the C96 would have been a primary weapon, rather than a CQB/backup weapon which needs to be drawn in a hurry.
(Incidentally, Winston Churchill used a C96 at Omdurman when he rode with the 21st Lancers, as a shoulder injury prevented him using a sword).

[Schone23666]

All I can say in regards to all this: LOL!

It's good to always keep your small arms inventory current and be on the lookout for something better that inevitably comes along, but this, again? The service branches (U.S. at least) have got some weird neurotic process sometimes about deciding just what the hell they want in regards to small arms, yeesh.