Airliner Shot Down over Ukraine

[Olefin]

Frankly if our President has any balls he should tell the Russians that one more event like this of any sort and the US will consider the Ukranian "separatists" to be terrorists and deal with them accordingly with all the force that the US can muster - or that they will begin to escort all civilian airliners in the area and engage and destroy any threats that are detected

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by Olefin

Frankly if our President has any balls he should tell the Russians that one more event like this of any sort and the US will consider the Ukranian "separatists" to be terrorists and deal with them accordingly with all the force that the US can muster - or that they will begin to escort all civilian airliners in the area and engage and destroy any threats that are detected

Ummm.... I understand your anger and frustration. As many have said before, there is very little the USA can (or will) do about this. NATO is a toothless old dog. I am wondering how long it will before people start shooting down airliners EVERYWHERE!!! There is almost NO way to stop a SAM from downing an airliner. Well, there is, but it would cost BILLIONS. Not going to happen. THat would interrupt profits.

My $0.02

Mike

[RN7]

Who's to blame?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...rder-live.html

Most of the casualties are Western Europeans or people who hold European citizenship. Putin is in big trouble now, Europe will fully support American sanctions against Russia which are already strangling the Russian economy. The Russian separatists who fired the missile are going to disappear very quickly.

[Olefin]

Actually there is a lot we can do about this - escort the airliners using aircraft configured as Wild Weasels - if they detect the systems locking on they can launch and take them out. But it would require the US or Europeans agreeing to escort them - much like the US escorted tankers during the Iran Iraq War.

But it takes political will that Obama doesnt have and backbone that the Europeans dont have.

[stormlion1]

Just why in the hell are civilian aircraft flying over what is essentially a warzone? I'm not surprised that this has happened, I'm surprised it hadn't happened sooner!

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by RN7

Putin is in big trouble now,

he is in nothing now; our pResident is weak and ineffective, and Putin knows it. Russia waited for Bush to be very nearly out of office before starting shit in Georgia, they (correctly) assumed he wouldn't want to rock the boat prior to exiting office. Forty seconds after making an announcement about this yesterday, Obama was cracking jokes with the press about unrelated matters. All he cares about is pressing the flesh to try and stop the savage beating his party will take in the midterms, and the Russians know that.

Shit they could fly a TU-95 over NYC with the bomb bay doors open and a city-killer hanging underneath and we wouldn't do anything

[stormlion1]

Obama and his party know there in trouble at the moment and signs show there going to be reduced to a minority in the Senate and lose seats in Congress. And that is 100 times more important to them than a plane being shot down over the Ukraine. I have to ask though, don't Civilian Airliners have anything to detect a missile lock? A warning light? Anything? I know the occurrence is rare but it has happened before.

[rcaf_777]

before the moderator steps in let get off the poltics and back on track

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by stormlion1

I have to ask though, don't Civilian Airliners have anything to detect a missile lock? A warning light? Anything? I know the occurrence is rare but it has happened before.

And do what with that information? Radio "Oh god we're about to be hit by a missile"? Evasion is out of the question. Forcing a missile to overshoot requires putting huge amounts of energy into a turn, dive, pitch up etc. Energy commercial jets just do not have.

[Olefin]

You can equip an aircraft with detectors and countermeasures - but it costs money to do so and it means you are hauling them instead of passengers - from what I remember El Al equipped their planes with things like chaff and flare dispensers and missile detectors - but not sure if anyone else has.

And there are things you can do - for one turn away from the missile and hope to outrun it or get out of its range - but you have to be lucky and have someone fire at you at the outside edge of the range envelope to get away with that

Basically the best protection you can give an aircraft like that is being able to overwhelmingly hit back against anyone who would shoot at them - and while we have the capability we dont have the political guts to do so.

For instance I highly doubt they would be taking potshots at airliners if the US launched a bunch of airstrikes against every ammo dump they had on the Ukranian side of the border and took out every tank and APC they had and then said the next time it will be worse.

Sounds like we may be looking at a 1995 event here from the game if Putin doesnt pull his head out of his butt and realize what he has put in motion while there is still time to stop it.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

And do what with that information? Radio "Oh god we're about to be hit by a missile"? Evasion is out of the question. Forcing a missile to overshoot requires putting huge amounts of energy into a turn, dive, pitch up etc. Energy commercial jets just do not have.

It all depends on the pilot and on how much warning he has and what the missile used is - its one thing to get out of the range of a short range missile its another to avoid what they used.

[RN7]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

he is in nothing now; our pResident is weak and ineffective, and Putin knows it. Russia waited for Bush to be very nearly out of office before starting shit in Georgia, they (correctly) assumed he wouldn't want to rock the boat prior to exiting office. Forty seconds after making an announcement about this yesterday, Obama was cracking jokes with the press about unrelated matters. All he cares about is pressing the flesh to try and stop the savage beating his party will take in the midterms, and the Russians know that.

Shit they could fly a TU-95 over NYC with the bomb bay doors open and a city-killer hanging underneath and we wouldn't do anything

As discussed at length before on previous threads you cant go around using military force against a nuclear armed and powerful country like Russia. But America is using economic warfare against Russia and its absolutely strangling the Russian economy and there are articles about it all over the internet. If Europe also fully endorses it then Russia has no source of credit outside of its owns stocks of foreign reserves. They wont last long and Putin will have to ask the Arabs or China for money. With the Israelis hammering the crap out of Hamas and the PLO and all the trouble in Iraq and Syria the Arabs want America on their side, so that leaves China. China has huge amounts of credit but much of it is in US treasury holdings. China would have to sell them to bail out Russia and that's good news for who?