T2013

[.45cultist]

As I think of dusting off T2013, I had a question. Does the T2013 gang "bounce" between versions with conversions of their characters? I'm looking at pushing the timeline back to the election of '16. This would allow Russia the opportunity to up arm and the West to scramble to rearm.

[Tegyrius]

There's nothing in the rules set to prevent this. With the exception of gear, all the rules were designed to permit play in any era between the late 1980s and the next decade. I know some groups have done classic 1.0/2.0/2.2 timeline conversions.

- C.

[.45cultist]

Another thread on T2013 vehicles gave me the bug and I think Russia might need a few years to be a larger threat. Also gives Europe more time to simmer.

[swaghauler]

I like the Rebuilding, Coolness, and Initiative rules from Twilight 2013. I mix all of the editions together.

I was thinking about this as a proposed timeline. In 2025, the US is struggling through a "Major Depression." We are on the verge of "bankruptcy" due to a number of factors. Rising fuel costs, several Very costly (up to a trillion dollars) cyber attacks on our markets and retail sectors. Several Severe Weather incidents (tornadoes and hurricanes) and a deadly Influenza outbreak in the US and Europe.

The Chinese are also suffering and have put "designs" on certain resources in the Pacific Rim. The "buildup" of the war in the Pacific Rim would start with a conflict in the Korean theater along with a clash between China and Japan over resources in the currently claimed "Chinese Exclusion Zone" (the island chains that China is already in dispute with Japan and the Philippines over). China manages to subvert Malaysia (which has a significant percentage of its population of Chinese decent) and they join (clandestinely at first) the fray for a share of the resources. The newly launched Chinese Carriers are used to good effect. This forces the US to intervene. This "Intervention" causes China to launch an "Economic" offensive against the US. The US finds itself fighting a "two front brush war" in the Pacific Rim with a "failing" dollar. It has a technological advantage, but is logistically "stretched to the breaking point." trying to keep these conflicts supplied with a reduced fleet strength.

Russia has stepped up "support" for rebels in the Ukraine and is now threatening Georgia and Estonia again. It has renewed its mutual defense pacts with Iran and China (the one they are working on right now). Western Europe's very troubling "let's not intervene in the Ukraine" attitude (as demonstrated by the recent EU vote taken on the Ukraine) along with the EU's weak "Depression Era" economy encourages Russian aggression (its own economy strengthened by skyrocketing fuel prices). The Russians use the "excuse" of protecting Russian lives to enter the Ukraine. Poland moves to secure its Eastern border and support the Ukraine. Full scale hostilities ensue. The EU gets "drawn into" the conflict when the Russians pull a foolish move. They attempt to "cut off" the Ukraine by launching an offensive through Belorussia along the Polish border and come into conflict with the Poles (on Polish soil). NATO is now involved in a conflict in Europe.

Iran (probably at Russian and Chinese prompting) stirs up unrest in the Middle East just as the EU and Pacific Rim begin to escalate. The US is forced to support its allies in the gulf against actions in Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, and Iraq. Once again, the US is technologically more than a match, but are out manned by so many commitments at once. Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are surrounded by hostile forces and begin to press for full US intervention in the region.

When you step back and look at all of these "Regional Conflicts" (some of a limited scope), You realize that the WORLD is at war. We started World War 3 and didn't even know it....

[Cdnwolf]

Don't forget what happened in Paris... instead of launching a nuke at Belorussia what if France launched one at ISIS in the Middle East... image the repercussions.

[.45cultist]

I also still have the zombie stats..... Lot's of goodness potential!

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Cdnwolf

Don't forget what happened in Paris... instead of launching a nuke at Belorussia what if France launched one at ISIS in the Middle East... image the repercussions.

It would be ugly. The other reality wouldn't be much better. ISIS is a Sunni based extremist group created in a backlash against Shiite oppression. What if we bombed ISIS out of existence, and the Shiite extremists (backed by a possibly nuclear Iran) took over in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, and Lebanon. The pressure on Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and The Emirates would be extreme. Israel would be virtually under siege. I believe that even Egypt would be in potential jeopardy during a Shiite "Arab Spring" where (western aligned?) moderate Muslims were being persecuted.

[Tnchi2a]

I was thinking for my game, I would lead off with

1.the Ukrainian war going hot with Russia (Russia stepping in to save Russian speaking Ukrainians) sorry had to wait till i stopped laughing

2.NATO involvement in Poland Push Russia over the edge (Putin's Fear of western aggression).

3.North Korean invasion of the south.

4. Indo-Pakistani wars #5 leads to Chinese involvement

5. Iran Israeli war (Ad nations as you see fit)

6. etc. = nuclear war

have not got the story written yet but this is the outline with a game start date of 2030.

advice welcome

[StainlessSteelCynic]

One thing about North Korea is worth bringing up. They are sitting on a gold mine of rare earth elements (REEs). North Korea has allowed very little surveying to be done but covert satellite surveying by the West had identified areas of likely REE deposits. Very recently, Chinese surveyors were allowed into the country and they confirmed that there are large REE deposits available for exploitation.
China has been the world supplier of many REEs for the last few decades but they have been very canny with managing supply & demand specifically to keep the price in their favour. They would love to "manage" the North Korean (NorK) deposits to ensure a continuing Chinese monopoly.

This has the potential to make North Korea a very rich country - but we already know where most of the money goes so the possibility is that they will become more heavily armed but with better weaponry.

In terms of a game storyline, perhaps China has been exploiting the NorK REE deposits for many years and paying the NorKs for the privilege with food, weapons and lower level Chinese technology. This would give them a far greater threat level when it comes to any invasion of South Korea.

[Tnchi2a]

Thanks did not know that.
with that info a arms for mineral treaty is not to far off, and makes for a more pressing invasion scenario.

thanks for the input

[Cdnwolf]

Originally Posted by Tnchi2a

I was thinking for my game, I would lead off with

1.the Ukrainian war going hot with Russia (Russia stepping in to save Russian speaking Ukrainians) sorry had to wait till i stopped laughing

How about if the Chechen rebels decide to step their fight and do more terrorist attacks against Russia's southern front. In my timeline I had them detonate a dirty bomb in Stalingrad during a parade celebrating the anniversary of the Battle of Stalingrad. Material supplied from a third country (cough cough Iran).

As for North Korea how about they try testing one of their nuclear missiles over the Sea of Japan... it goes astray and hits Vladovostok and some of the fallout goes into China....

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by Tnchi2a

Thanks did not know that.
with that info a arms for mineral treaty is not to far off, and makes for a more pressing invasion scenario.

thanks for the input

You're welcome
I used to work in the mining industry so the info about minerals potential in NorK was part of the industry knowledge.

[swaghauler]

Another thing I would consider in a new timeline was brought up by Schone23666. Biowarfare. What if China, North Korea, Iran or Russia decided to engage in a clandestine bioattack. It would work like this. Instead of using a "weaponized" virus (which is easily ID'd); China decides to infect several major US & European cities with Plague or Avian Flu by contaminating several public areas with normal strains of these viruses. The goal here is ECONOMIC DAMAGE, NOT CASUALTY CREATION. We would be able to contain and treat such a covert "low intensity" attack and casualties could be 100K or less. The cost of containment and treatment could easily top $100K per patient for something like the Plague. This Economic Impact would be the goal of such a covert mission. Why? Because responding to the crisis at home would reduce the involved governments' ability to respond to China's actions in the Pacific Rim. Combined with "attacks" designed to crash our stock markets; This would be an effective way to reduce US power abroad. If China, Iran, and Russia were coordinating their efforts, we could be under extreme pressure in a very short time frame. This would act like a "force multiplier" for their aggressive military actions. China would be my first worry. Russia is more "advanced" in biowarfare, but China does have the facilities in Mongolia (first used by Japan during WW2) and it is farther away from the US & Europe (isolation IS protection in Biowarfare). I have heard that the Plague outbreak that caused a city of 30K in China to be quarantined last year was "suspicious" in nature (an accident in R&D?).

[swaghauler]

When I read the Twilight 2013 timeline, I find it hard to believe that China could put forces on US soil to disrupt our government. Instead, I believe that China and Russia (beginning to experience losses due to Western Technological Superiority) might hatch a plan to exploit our "Achilles heel." We are very dependent on electronic technologies for command and control. The Russians and Chinese would have great difficulty in approaching our shores or operating in the shallow waters of North Western Europe without us sinking their subs. A couple of Russian Subs may be able to hit a few key US cities, but between US Patriot and THAD missile systems this would be problematic. A stealth approach using retrofitted cargo ships could be used to "incapacitate" US command and control in a way. These ships would not have the capability to target the missiles they carried accurately; but they could launch those missiles into the stratosphere over the target area and use the EMP effect to knock out all of our electronic devices. Consider that when we did the tests at Bikini Atoll, the detonation knocked out electricity in Hawaii 1500 miles away. Once the attack was initiated, we would, of course, counter attack. This would level command and control assets (at least in the civilian sectors) on both sides. The chaos in the major cities without power would be terrible. If it were followed up with "precision strikes" on high priority targets; you would have major chaos with minimal nuclear fallout. This would be the scariest type of nuclear war because you can almost justify doing it.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Anther covert attack method would be to target the electricity distribution grid. Modern Western society is so dependent on electricity that many people will not know how to survive without it so combine the bioattack method mentioned by Swaghauler with a follow-up attack on the electricity grid and very soon you have thousands of healthy people demanding the resources you needed for treating the sick.

[Tnchi2a]

Know something about telecommunications (worked for ATT networking) i would stay away from the command and control attacks it would be effective vs low level city power grids but with the interlinking systems the effect would be minimized, really it would take an EMP of much greater power then a small device could deliver to take down the grid plus most if not all military C&C is satellite based now. with the nerve centers in EMP proof locations. (also ex-USAF)

as for the China attacking the us economic. China's markets are to closely tide to ours for that to be effective. now it may work for Russia and Iran how are not as closely tie to the world markets.

Ill have my Timeline up in a few days for comments and suggestions.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Tnchi2a

Know something about telecommunications (worked for ATT networking) i would stay away from the command and control attacks it would be effective vs low level city power grids but with the interlinking systems the effect would be minimized, really it would take an EMP of much greater power then a small device could deliver to take down the grid plus most if not all military C&C is satellite based now. with the nerve centers in EMP proof locations. (also ex-USAF)

as for the China attacking the us economic. China's markets are to closely tide to ours for that to be effective. now it may work for Russia and Iran how are not as closely tie to the world markets.

Ill have my Timeline up in a few days for comments and suggestions.

I agree with your assessment of the military aspect. You missed my point with regards to civilian command and control. The proposed scenario would be several singular 1 megaton warheads launched (or delivered by commercial aircraft) high into the atmosphere (where only the THAD can reach) and detonating up and down either coast. The overlapping EMP's would knock out almost all electrical equipment and fry all of the civilian transportation and distribution systems in range of the EMP. How do you deliver food if there are no trucks running? There would be no water (because the pumps are fried and the grid is down). With the grid and telecom grid fried; There would be no telecommunications, no police dispatch, etc.... The disruption would come from our own civilian sector. The average city only has a 3 day supply of food in it. Without police coordination, looting would be rampant. With telecom down, one cannot reassure the population that help is on the way. Where would this help come from if the EMP disrupted an area of 1500 square miles? This attack would be designed to force US attention towards it's own shores and away from the areas about to be disputed. My theory assumes the survival of the military side of command and control as we launch an identical "counter attack," thus disabling the new "Pact's" C&C system.

China has already "attacked" our markets on two occasions and Russia did it once. This involves tripping certain automated trading programs (which are supposedly illegal by the way) that are designed to sell stock if it begins to fall. They get the stock falling and buy it as it plummets to rock bottom. After the market recovers, the stock regains its lost value, but is now owned by the hackers. That "wealth" has now been transferred (not destroyed) to the hacker who benefits from the "attack." This type of "attack" would not endanger China's economy (which would already be under pressure because of the "depression" that the US is in). In fact, this type of attack has happened at least half a dozen times since the 2008 meltdown. The EU actually fined several US traders for using this software and "destabilizing" the EU markets as a result. Remember that the goal of these attacks is to render the Western response to any moves made by Russia or China "cost prohibitive," not to physically "disable" the US military "command and control." It would be very difficult to justify spending BILLIONS of dollars to defend Japan or the Ukraine when MILLIONS of Americans are without the basic necessities of life. People would riot in the streets. This would be the Russian/Chinese thinking for justification of such a sneak attack. They really wouldn't understand how such an attack might just galvanize US resolve, like the mistake Osama Bin Laden made with the 9/11 attack. This could indeed be the real trigger for WW3.