13th Armored Cavalry Regiment

[Tnchi2a]

Originally Posted by Matt Wiser

This is set in the Red Dawn timeline

As was this OOB
The Red Dawn timeline starts the war in 1984,
as I stated the Stingray prototype was produced in August 1984
The M1 had been in production since 1980
and was supplemented at the time by the large stock of M60A4s already in service and stored in U.S. Army and NG depots
the U.S government would not stop production of a Tested and already evaluated tank to put and untested Tank in to production.
LAV-25 entered service in 1983 1 year before the events of Red Dawn
so would not be available in the numbers need to fill out the Marine Corps orders let alone to equip the equivalent of a NG unit
To fill out the unit they would use what they had tons of in reserve, the M113 ACAVs P.S. the LAV-25 is in service with the US Army now as the Stryker family of vehicles

Now on the OOB I was stating the requirements By U.S. Army regulations Table Of Organization for a Armored Cavalry Regiment. (ORGANIC TO AN ARMORED CAVALRY SQUADRON,ARMORED CAVALRY REGIMENT, TOE 17485L100.)

[ArmySGT.]

Military Police is a Platoon and not a Troop...... even though their origins are of Dragoons belonging to the Marechausee Corps.

MPs are either Division or Corps MP companies.

There are Escort/Guard MP companies assigned to special assets like moving chemical munitions from depots to an installation or port.

There are EPW MP companies tasked with holding prisoners or civilian detainees.

Lastly there are MP detachments doing special tasks....... Dog handlers assisting VIP security, counter narcotics, counter IEDs. There are police detachments running law operations in war zones. There are MP teams guarding judicial officers and JAG teams doing assessments of EPWs and Civilian detainees. There are MPs guard LTG (three stars) and Senators or Congressmen visiting in theater. Typically guard, escort, law and order, or customs missions.

Division is x4 platoons and a HQ platoon.

x1 platoon = x3 squads (3 teams per squad) Teams are x3 team leader, driver, gunner. Squad Leader usually rides in the junior team leaders vehicle.
x3 M1025 or M1026 HMMWVs and x1 3/4 ton trailer per squad.
x1 M1025 for the PL, x1M998 or CUCV for the PSG.

Corps is x4-6 platoons and a HQ platoon
x1 platoon = x4 squads (3 teams per squad) Teams are x3 team leader, driver, gunner. Squad Leader usually is also a Team leader.
x3 M1025 or M1026 HMMWVs and x1 3/4 ton trailer per squad.
x1 M1025 for the PL, M998 or CUCV for the PSG.
PL has a driver and a Gunner, the PSG either drives himself or uses one of the HQ soldiers on loan.

Team armament: Mk19 MGL. TL M16/M4 with M203 and M1911 or M9, Driver M249 (90s) or M4 (00s) with M1911 or M9, Gunner M60 (90s) or M249 (00s) with M1911 or M9. One shotgun per squad with non lethal ammo.

M2HBs are not typically on the MTOE..... some units yes, some no. If an MP unit has a .50 chances are it is on loan from Battalion.

Last...... Some Divisional MP units have MANPADS. 82nd MP is one equipped with a stinger as part of their mission to protect the CG.

TL M16/M4 with M1911 or M9. PSG M16/M4 with M1911 or M9

All humvees have two radios... AN-VRC -46 with KY-57 (90s) or two SINCGARS (00s) in the 90s the PL would have a GR-106 AM radio and a Battlefax; in the 00s just the AM radio. One OE -254 (90s) or OE-292 (00s) antenna for LR radio relay per squad, and one for the PL.

Explosives would be light. MPs seldom get frag or HE more than two hand and 6-8 HEDP for the team leader. Lavishly supplied with colored smoke for signalling and parachute flares to assist in rear area/base defense. M18 claymores 1 or 2 per squad, M72 LAW (90s) or AT4 (00s) per team.

Night vision........ TL has AN/PVS-5 (90s) or 7 (00s), Driver AN/PVS 5 or 7, Gunner AN/TVS-5 (MK19) and AN/PVS 4 (M60/M249) the TL may have a spare reticle to convert the AN/PVS 4 to M16/M203.

PL has AN/PVS-5 (90s) or 7 (00s). PSG neither, sometime AN/PVS-5 (00s)

GPS....... 90s on the TL and Squad leaders were issued SLGR, by the 90s every team leader is issue a PLGR.

One medic, one mechanic, and one signal is assigned from the HQ platoon to the MP platoon during missions with a large geographic area such as convoy, area security, or route recon......... They assist the PSG.

HQ platoon is much the same in either. Commander has a driver and a gunner (borrowed from 4th platoon), 1SG has a driver and gunner (borrowed from 4th platoon. Ops Sgt (MSGT, with x2 SSGs, x2 Spc clerks), Commo Sgt (SGT or SSG with 4-5 Spcs to assign to platoons, Medical Sgt with 4-5 Spcs to assign to platoons, one Chem NCO possibly one spc, typically not. One Wheeled mechanic NCO (SSG, with SGT asst and 4-6 mechanics and one parts clerk.

Division MP Companies a broken up and assist their brigades directly...... 1st platoon / 1st Brigade..... typically as the EPW collection point/route recon/area security/convoy escort....While 4th platoon and HQ platoon either assist base defense or operate the larger division EPW collection point.

Corps MP companies typically remain collected and under the control of their own company commander or battalion commander........ missions include EPW detention camps.... Critical asset protection (air fields, power plants, refineries, ammo dumps, enemy collect weapons), large scale convoy escorts, and law and order mission in host nation.

MP platoons are seldom doing missions below a Brigade level even though assigned to an MP battalion for organizational or training purposes.

Oddly, it is more common for non MP platoons to be assigned to an MP company or battalion than the reverse... Such as a Cavalry platoon to an MP battalion or a signal platoon to an MP Company.

[CDAT]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Military Police is a Platoon and not a Troop...... even though their origins are of Dragoons belonging to the Marechausee Corps.

MPs are either Division or Corps MP companies.
...

One thing to add to your long list of what they have, when I was overseas my last couple of deployments was as EOD had MP platoons turn in on average 30 or so AT-4 per platoon, I do not remember if they were Division or Corp MP's but were assigned to combat patrol missions.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by CDAT

One thing to add to your long list of what they have, when I was overseas my last couple of deployments was as EOD had MP platoons turn in on average 30 or so AT-4 per platoon, I do not remember if they were Division or Corp MP's but were assigned to combat patrol missions.

It is part of the short list under explosives. MPs are typically light on HE.

In the 90s with the 48 round HEDP I had 8-10 cans.... When they went to 32 rounds It went down to 4 cans........

M72A2 LAW was one per team in the 90s and AT4 (M136) replaced that in 00s.
M67 frag was one or two per team.
AN/M14 -TH3 thermite was one per team.
M8 smoke was 4-8 per team.
M18 colored smoke was 1 of each except Red then we had 4-8 for marking LZs for medevacs.
M18A1 claymores was two per squad
Rocket illum flares was one per team
Rocket signal flare (red) was two per team for signaling medevac.
Team leaders had 3-6 HEDP for their M203, sometimes non lethal sponge rounds.
Shotguns has 00 buck but, were mostly loaded with rubber shot (00s) or birdshot (90s) for clearing civilians away from convoys.

There was one can of 5.56 to top up the TL and driver.
M60s had 10 or more cans of 7.62N
M249s 4-8 cans of 2 drums each
M9 ammo was just what was in the magazines. Though we pillaged enemy mags for 9mm.

[CDAT]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

It is part of the short list under explosives. MPs are typically light on HE.

In the 90s with the 48 round HEDP I had 8-10 cans.... When they went to 32 rounds It went down to 4 cans........

M72A2 LAW was one per team in the 90s and AT4 (M136) replaced that in 00s.
M67 frag was one or two per team.
AN/M14 -TH3 thermite was one per team.
M8 smoke was 4-8 per team.
M18 colored smoke was 1 of each except Red then we had 4-8 for marking LZs for medevacs.
M18A1 claymores was two per squad
Rocket illum flares was one per team
Rocket signal flare (red) was two per team for signaling medevac.
Team leaders had 3-6 HEDP for their M203, sometimes non lethal sponge rounds.
Shotguns has 00 buck but, were mostly loaded with rubber shot (00s) or birdshot (90s) for clearing civilians away from convoys.

There was one can of 5.56 to top up the TL and driver.
M60s had 10 or more cans of 7.62N
M249s 4-8 cans of 2 drums each
M9 ammo was just what was in the magazines. Though we pillaged enemy mags for 9mm.

They had three to five per three man HMMWV. Now I do not know if that was normal or where they got them, as it is not normal for them to turn them in to EOD but had a couple of companies do this.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by CDAT

They had three to five per three man HMMWV. Now I do not know if that was normal or where they got them, as it is not normal for them to turn them in to EOD but had a couple of companies do this.

Times change, opinions change........ I can only speak for Desert Storm in 91, and Iraqi Freedom in 03,04,05.

Come to think of it ....... The National Guard MP company that was attached to the same Battalion had AN/PVS-14s for the Driver and TL / SL and the Gunners had the AN/PVS -7Bs (00s). Additionally, this NG MP company had the new lighter and smaller airborne version of the SINCGARS radios.
... (MP companies are swapped between Battalions too.) Consisted of three Active, one National Guard, and a Cavalry Troop.

MPs are odd that way. The MP Battalion deploys sometimes separately without companies and takes over units supplied from other active posts, plus reserve, NG, and loaner elements like supply, signal, cavalry, infantry....... mission depending.

[Tnchi2a]

Well a few of the reasons the stingray would not be used
1.its not a main battle tank
2.it was constructed in Slidell, Louisiana, U.S. (which is under Mexican rule in red dawn)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...th_America.png
3.its has no advantages over the current U.S. tanks other then cost (yes it was even slower then the M1 tank)
4. cost to kill ratio was to low only had 23mm armor at is best.
cost 1.5 million per unit (4.3 million for M1) kill rate stranded tank gun 100% all sides
yes the U.S. army did evaluated the stingray as a airborne delivered tank but never as a replacement for the M1 or M60.

now the main and really only needed reason you will not see a LAV-25 used by this unit is its not a tracked vehicle.
Armored cavalry units since the early 80s have been all track units in there combat elements. Before that they were Airmobile units.

On to what I keep hearing about the army getting first dibs
1. the Active duty Army units in the U.S. are already equipped and would not need to raid the Nation Guard Depots for vehicles.
2. There a plenty of tanks for the new units to equip from in the depots.
seeing as most if not all NG units are Infantry.

now just to clarify most of what I'm saying is base of logistics and standard military Naming processors.

Now a unit like this is more likely to be a
Armored Reconnaissance Squadron which is a division level unit that would be broken-up and divided between the brigades as troop level units. and would not get over Squadron size.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Tnchi2a

As was this OOB. The Red Dawn timeline starts the war in 1984, as I stated the Stingray prototype was produced in August 1984. The M1 had been in production since 1980 and was supplemented at the time by the large stock of M60A4s already in service and stored in U.S. Army and NG depots.
The U.S government would not stop production of a tested and already evaluated tank to put an untested tank in to production.

The LAV-25 entered service in 1983, 1 year before the events of Red Dawn, so would not be available in the numbers need to fill out the Marine Corps orders let alone to equip the equivalent of a NG unit. To fill out the unit they would use what they had tons of in reserve, the M113 ACAVs.

P.S. the LAV-25 is in service with the US Army now as the Stryker family of vehicles.

Ah, but it's not as straight-forward as you suggest. Yes the war kicks off in 1984 in the Red Dawn timeline, but in that alternate universe the United States' geopolitical and economic situation had diverged from the RL timeline some years, probably at least a decade, before. IIRC in the RD timeline the US was in a steep economic decline and had, for some reason, either lost many of its allies or its traditional allies were in even worse economic shape than the US.

Under those circumstances, any of those significant dates that you mentioned for the RL fielding of hardware could be completely different in the RD universe. I would suggest that in the RD timeline, the US wouldn't have the necessary funds to be developing and producing large numbers of new MBTs and APCs. They'd probably be refurbishing and upgrading existing vehicles, and in all likelihood struggling to maintain military strength anything like the RL US military did during the 1980s.

[Matt Wiser]

Not to mention that Regular Army units have first priority for the M-1s and Bradleys. It's not until 1987-88 that mobilized ARNG and USAR units are reequipped with either the M-1/M2 or get the previously-mentioned M-60A4 with the M-1 turret and keep the M-113. Check the company team mentioned in the Red Dawn fic thread: they use the M-60A4 with the 105-mm gun and the M-113.