How dark is the future of the Morrow Project

[cosmicfish]

Originally Posted by stormlion1

Incompetent means they did a poor job. Designed to fail means someone deliberately set it up to fail even though many others did there best to make it work.

The latter still implies the former in no small part - if it was set up to fail, and no one recognized and addressed some pretty glaring signs of such, then they were incompetent also.

Originally Posted by stormlion1

It looks like Morrow (who in the 4th edition dies) had a plan for the Project that was only partly set up to rebuild a nuked United States. In earlier editions its not as clear but if no one ever noticed or I haven't learned. Mr Morrow wasn't at Prime Base when it was destroyed.
Did he know something he wasn't telling anyone?

Those earlier editions never explained Morrow enough to really know his abilities or intentions - you could assume anything you wanted. I always assumed that, other than his ability to time-travel, he was a pretty ordinary guy who had been shocked into action by what he saw of the future. The only time it came up in a game, I told my players that his abilities were killing him, and that he chose to make his last trip into the future so that he could personally help those hurt by the war he was unable to prevent.

But regardless, he was the initiator of the Project, not the sole vision behind it. Whatever his personal intentions, there were plenty of people who should have been able to see and correct the problems that endangered their own dear lives... unless, of course, they were ALL incompetent and/or suicidal. OR just Morrow's version of the Golgafrincham's "C" Ark!

[stormlion1]

Actually I kind of figured that after plans were set in motion he would send changes along after the fact. The Council of Tomorrow might have made approvals of several things that would have worked, but Morrow after the fact modified them. As far as anyone was concerned everything is as it should have been.
The question would be why. I think that rebuilding after a nuclear war would have just recreated the old United States, an angry one. By forcing the issue and waking the teams later he had a blank check to create a new nation. The entire US is either small ministates or wilderness. A true blank slate with Morrow Teams doing the rebuilding with a large leg up in comparison to other survivors.

[cosmicfish]

Originally Posted by stormlion1

Actually I kind of figured that after plans were set in motion he would send changes along after the fact. The Council of Tomorrow might have made approvals of several things that would have worked, but Morrow after the fact modified them. As far as anyone was concerned everything is as it should have been.

That implies that (a) Morrow was in operational control and that (b) the Council had no other contact with the rest of the Project. Those don't seem like reasonable assumptions to me. Any of thousands of people should have seen immediate problems and worked to correct them, presumably reporting up their change of command.

Regardless, this Morrowluminati idea is a quite different interpretation than anything I ever saw implied in the game.

Originally Posted by stormlion1

The question would be why. I think that rebuilding after a nuclear war would have just recreated the old United States, an angry one. By forcing the issue and waking the teams later he had a blank check to create a new nation. The entire US is either small ministates or wilderness. A true blank slate with Morrow Teams doing the rebuilding with a large leg up in comparison to other survivors.

Why would it recreate the old US? Most of the people who were devoted to that specific form of government and who had the passion and skill to execute it would have been the exact people targeted in the war! I always saw the purpose of the Project as being saving the people, and allowing them to decide the course of their governance on their own - perhaps uniting into a new United States, perhaps become a patchwork of independent nations. I don't recall anywhere the Teams are instructed to give specific guidance on this to the people they are helping.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

Why would it recreate the old US? Most of the people who were devoted to that specific form of government and who had the passion and skill to execute it would have been the exact people targeted in the war! I always saw the purpose of the Project as being saving the people, and allowing them to decide the course of their governance on their own - perhaps uniting into a new United States, perhaps become a patchwork of independent nations. I don't recall anywhere the Teams are instructed to give specific guidance on this to the people they are helping.

That is a 3rd edition versus 4th edition schism...

3rd was about saving civilization and 4th implies strong if not outright saying the Project is there to preserve and rebuild the United States of America.

So when championing one or the other it helps with everyones understanding if you let people know which edition you are concerned about.

[cosmicfish]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

That is a 3rd edition versus 4th edition schism...

3rd was about saving civilization and 4th implies strong if not outright saying the Project is there to preserve and rebuild the United States of America.

So when championing one or the other it helps with everyones understanding if you let people know which edition you are concerned about.

Gotcha. Don't have 4th edition yet, have not yet been overwhelmed with reasons to purchase it, either.

From a practical standpoint, rebuilding the USA as it currently exists would be a monumentally complex task. Even just a few years post-apocalypse, that type of government might be very problematic and not even desired by the population.

[stormlion1]

That's the issue. A few years afterwords no one will want a US or they will want a US that will exact revenge for them. By waiting the old US of A becomes a Golden Age in peoples memorys and something to rebuild towards. The main issue is that after Prime was destroyed the Regional Bases didn't wake up either or were destroyed. And if they did wake up, they didn't have the ability to wake anyone else up. A massive oversight.

[cosmicfish]

Originally Posted by stormlion1

That's the issue. A few years afterwords no one will want a US or they will want a US that will exact revenge for them. By waiting the old US of A becomes a Golden Age in peoples memorys and something to rebuild towards.

Will it? Consistently? Or will it become "The Cursed Old Ways that Nearly Destroyed Us ALL!!!!"? Under the circumstances, ignorance or hatred of the past seems more likely than reverence.

Originally Posted by stormlion1

The main issue is that after Prime was destroyed the Regional Bases didn't wake up either or were destroyed. And if they did wake up, they didn't have the ability to wake anyone else up. A massive oversight.

So massive that it is either stunning incompetence or massive conspiracy. Neither one really fits with 3rd edition (can't speak to 4th), but I prefer a different answer: the designers of the game didn't think this through very well. Everyone makes mistakes, and it seems reasonable for these to be game design mistakes (to be fixed!!) rather than intentional flaws in the Project.