How dark is the future of the Morrow Project

[cosmicfish]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

The Rich Five used their positions within the Council of Tomorrow to steer their own loyal followers into the base staff, auxiliary personnel, and teams.

I am curious... where does it indicate that the Rich Five were on the Council of Tomorrow? I always understood that they were able to steal some information from TMP, but the lower level of technology implied that they lacked the kind of access that Council membership should have provided.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

I am curious... where does it indicate that the Rich Five were on the Council of Tomorrow? I always understood that they were able to steal some information from TMP, but the lower level of technology implied that they lacked the kind of access that Council membership should have provided.

I haven't ignored your question....... I just haven't found an answer in Canon materials.

Bullets and Bluegrass tells us that the Rich Five had Cryosleep technology before the War on their own. Canon states that the Cryosleep technology was in use by the Project, the U.S. government (Canada too, with Snake Eaters), the Frozen Chosen, and the Rich Five.

This way we infer that the Rich Five, as industrialists, had to be part of the Council of Tomorrow, or the Corporations responsible for Cryosleep research or production...... Cryosleep research begins in the 1960s with animal research (Fallback), though principal researchers, corporation, and places of production are not named.

I will continue to have a look through the modules, I think the answer is there.

[cosmicfish]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Bullets and Bluegrass tells us that the Rich Five had Cryosleep technology before the War on their own. Canon states that the Cryosleep technology was in use by the Project, the U.S. government (Canada too, with Snake Eaters), the Frozen Chosen, and the Rich Five.

This way we infer that the Rich Five, as industrialists, had to be part of the Council of Tomorrow, or the Corporations responsible for Cryosleep research or production...... Cryosleep research begins in the 1960s with animal research (Fallback), though principal researchers, corporation, and places of production are not named.

The Rich Five, Frozen Chosen, and the Snake Eaters are all indicated as having cryo technology in the 3ed core rulebook, it is never indicated which direction technology was flowing, or how. We can surmise anything we want, but the US government sure wasn't on the CoT and they had cryo technology! Again, it seems that if the Rich Five were on the CoT they would have more Morrow technology and enough information to make sure that every team was already dead before becoming a problem. More likely (to me) is that the Rich Five included the contractors developing cryo tech for the government prior to the war. The Chosen Frozen stole it (good old industrial espionage), as did Bruce Morrow, who took the tech back in time and used it as the foundation for the Project's more refined systems.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

The Rich Five, Frozen Chosen, and the Snake Eaters are all indicated as having cryo technology in the 3ed core rulebook, it is never indicated which direction technology was flowing, or how. We can surmise anything we want, but the US government sure wasn't on the CoT and they had cryo technology! Again, it seems that if the Rich Five were on the CoT they would have more Morrow technology and enough information to make sure that every team was already dead before becoming a problem. More likely (to me) is that the Rich Five included the contractors developing cryo tech for the government prior to the war. The Chosen Frozen stole it (good old industrial espionage), as did Bruce Morrow, who took the tech back in time and used it as the foundation for the Project's more refined systems.

More background on the Morrow Project Cryosleep program is outlined briefly in "Fallback" stating that the Project was experimenting with this tech as far back as the 1960s.

[mmartin798]

The 1960's era cryosleep was mentioned in the 3rd edition rules stating plainly that the Project perfected the science of cryogenics early in 1964. It also fits well with my picks for the Counsel of Tomorrow members and the Rich 5, since I include Charles F Adams IV, Chairman of Raytheon from 1960-1962 and 1964-1975. Raytheon purchased Amana Refrigeration in 1965 and bundled their microwave technology under the Amana name for the consumer market. As the canon description of the cryosleep process mention the use of microwaves to inhibit ice formation, it just worked for me.

As for how the US government got cryosleep, I suggest secret DARPA project. When cryonics got started in the late 1950's and early 1960's, there was one experiment where a rat was frozen to 0 Celsius and reanimated with microwaves in 1955. So no need for the US Government to have stolen it, just throw money and researchers at it.

[bobcat]

honestly i don't see this darkness that everyone keeps painting. yes the project failed(for any of a dozen plausible reasons listed) but even with that failure there are still survivors who the teams can help. as for the teams only spending a few weeks in an area that would be silly hen you think about it. each of the teams is given an AOR and generally put in a bolthole fairly central to their area of responsibility. this is done so that even if completely cut off they can still accomplish their small piece of the mission. one should also consider that the project wouldn't really be recruiting many "well adjusted" people. those who would be well adjusted to civilization would die rather quickly with civilization taken away. they would recruit and select people who could operate individually or in small teams with little external guidance because in a nuclear war and the aftermath thereof anything could happen. teams would carry out their initial orders, react to their unique situations, make reasonable attempts to contact their next higher headquarters, and mostly stay in their AOR. if each team spends a few weeks in each village or settlement, helps where they can, and keeps running a circuit within their AOR, it won't be that long until they can establish a more permanent patrol base and just send out help as it is needed.

it's no darker really than life as a colonist back in the old days, brighter in fact because at least the teams know that even in extreme contingencies they have a chance. compare that to the donner party.

[cosmicfish]

I think you are missing a lot of the problems. Ignoring the massive losses of people due to the Project's absence, the Project was depending on the knowledge and resources available immediately after the war, and without those resources the Project will see a lot of people suffer or die that otherwise could have been saved.

Worse, the intervening century and a half has given despots like the Rich Five and Krell time to entrench themselves and flourish, meaning that an organization designed to bring order out of chaos must now also serve as an insurgency. The Project can still defeat them (presumably) but again, how many more (Project and civilian) will be lost?

The Project has lost both it's leadership and a decent chunk of its membership, and has awoken into a world vastly different than the one they were expecting with challenges that are both far greater and different in nature compared to their original mission. Given that the Project's remaining resources are never spelled out, it really is not possible to know whether or not they will be able to succeed or even survive.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by bobcat

honestly i don't see this darkness that everyone keeps painting. yes the project failed(for any of a dozen plausible reasons listed) but even with that failure there are still survivors who the teams can help. as for the teams only spending a few weeks in an area that would be silly hen you think about it. each of the teams is given an AOR and generally put in a bolthole fairly central to their area of responsibility. this is done so that even if completely cut off they can still accomplish their small piece of the mission. one should also consider that the project wouldn't really be recruiting many "well adjusted" people. those who would be well adjusted to civilization would die rather quickly with civilization taken away. they would recruit and select people who could operate individually or in small teams with little external guidance because in a nuclear war and the aftermath thereof anything could happen. teams would carry out their initial orders, react to their unique situations, make reasonable attempts to contact their next higher headquarters, and mostly stay in their AOR. if each team spends a few weeks in each village or settlement, helps where they can, and keeps running a circuit within their AOR, it won't be that long until they can establish a more permanent patrol base and just send out help as it is needed.

it's no darker really than life as a colonist back in the old days, brighter in fact because at least the teams know that even in extreme contingencies they have a chance. compare that to the donner party.

The darkness comes from the lack of support from even villages close to each other.

Survivors are a selfish, uncooperative bunch. They are the descendants of those that took what they needed. Often this was at the expense of others or the greater good. They are clannish and have a well learned distrust of outsiders due to raids, robbery, and disease. Villages cooperate on a barter system and often operate as feudal society with a chief or warlord that is the sole authority.

Trade still happens but, trade with outsiders happens infrequently and outside the village. Two armed groups meet somewhere in the middle of two villages and barter. Mistrust at best.

Ignorance..... Knowledge died. Sure, there are some C and B level groups and those would probably be the ones built around a preWar school or University. Most of the rest are focused solely on skills that make food, shelter, and warmth. People don't have time for nice things, some story telling and music for a few hours in the evening before rising at dawn to begin again. Most cannot read, and those that can mostly can read only at a grammar school level. People can't build more than simple machines because math has degenerated to simple arithmetic. Health is a terrifying mix of superstition, misunderstood lore, and fiction. The average person won't live to see 40. Most children will grow to be adults if they can just survive past their fifth birthday.

Technology is lost.... The plagues and the destruction were pitiless and did not care if the victim was a high school drop out or held a PHd. People that knew how to build things or repair things may have lasted longer if they were valuable to a collective whole, such as a mechanic who could fix cars. People were only able to pass on some of their knowledge and without formal education, some was lost in context. Some skills had to be learned and often without someone possessing the skills to begin with such as blacksmith or log cabin builder. Other things are consumed and cannot be replaced, like some tools. There is no hardware store when your last file is dull or the chainsaw chain has broken for the 34th time. Making a replacement may not even occur to them because no one in their collective tribe ever knew how to build any of it.