OT? A New Cold War

[Webstral]

It's interesting that countries which were neutral during the Cold War are now thinking seriously about joining NATO. Very interesting. For Sweden in particular to give up her neutrality would be a sea change in Swedish thinking.

[Schone23666]

Originally Posted by Webstral

It's interesting that countries which were neutral during the Cold War are now thinking seriously about joining NATO. Very interesting. For Sweden in particular to give up her neutrality would be a sea change in Swedish thinking.

Interesting, and also frightening. Something really has changed in Russia and the overall global equation if they're seriously considering this now.

[Medic]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

Actually the Fins can do this still as the Ottawa Treaty only covers non command anti personel mines, it dose apply to anti tank mines, claymores, the new XM-7 Spider Mines or booby traps

There is also nothing that prevents(Grey Area) thrid party from mining a coutry or storage of land mines by a non signing country.

In in theory the US could have a stockplie of it's own Army equipment (land mine) in Finland. As long as they are under US control the Fins claim could that the treaty is still enforced as it not their stockplie, and they are for use by the US which did not sign the treaty.

The Treat also states that each country can have a "small" number of land mines for training purposes, so have 40,000 no stock for training, that one per regular solider.

In Short there is not a document written by a man that another man can't find a way around.

Well, I do know that, but by removing the non-command detonated mines, the Finnish defense strategy changed completely.

The most useful mine in the Finnish arsenal was the Sakaramiina m/65, made of 60 grams (that's about two ounces for those who don't read metric) of TNT, a detonator and a three pronged pressure plate on top of the detonator. Until 1998, the pressure plate was made of bakelite or plastic and thus made the mine undetectable. The charge was enough to blow a tire or destroy a limb without killing, which was even better for the psychological effect on the enemy. The idea was, with anti-tank mines, one would deploy these smaller mines amongst them as a deterrent, so the enemy would think twice before trying to clear the minefield. Of course, nowadays we need to use a bit more drastic measures and use the Telamiina (Track Mine roughly translated), a 9kg pressed TNT-charge with a plastic center and the exactly same 60 gram charge in the middle with a pressure detonator without the plastic cap on the detonator so the mine will blow from far less pressure. With the cap, one could supposedly hop on the mine, but I would not test that. Without the cap, one steps on it and turns in to a mass of unidentified goo.

Now, I understand what you are suggesting about storing the mines for someone else or having them for training, but that won't fly. If the Finnish politicians are anything, they are far too honest in matters like these and dishonest in things they should be honest in. Perhaps not all of them, but the Finnish politics...well, that's enough about that.

FDF conducted research on the matter and could replace (at least in theory) all the aspects of an infantry mine, save for one - the psychological effect of walking in to a minefield.

Originally Posted by Webstral

It's interesting that countries which were neutral during the Cold War are now thinking seriously about joining NATO. Very interesting. For Sweden in particular to give up her neutrality would be a sea change in Swedish thinking.

The Swedish thinking has changed quite a bit, especially after that submarine incident. The Swedes dismantled their conscript army and turned it in to a small force of professional soldiers. However, they ran in to a bit of a problem - they could not get enough professional soldiers in to service. They have a Homeguard (Hemvärnet) that is a bunch of volunteers who train once or twice a year as far as I know, but they are at the same type of situation, they were in the beginning of WW2. Back then their pride, the Air Defense Artillery, had ammo for about 17 minutes, after which it would have run dry. There has been talk about the Swedes returning to the good old conscript army soon, though it might be a bit more selective service than in Finland.