Central Europe, Winter of 2000-2001 Unit Map

[Olefin]

They seem to be there - this is after Going Home when most US units are now back in the States

[kalos72]

Ahhh gotcha!

[Raellus]

@Silent Hunter: That's a good suggestion. I'll add a glossary to the key.

@Kalos: I see that Olefin has already answered your question. Thanks, Olefin.

@Olefin: That's an excellent question and it's been discussed here on the forum at some length. There's not a lot to go on in canon, just the following:

The XI Corps was cut off from higher headquarters
after the Pact counteroffensive of July, and has remained
in its positions out of necessity rather than by choice. It has
been written off by USAEUR. The XI US Corps HQ staff is currently
wintering in Kolobrzeg, Poland, along with the remnants
of the 50th US AD. As of the beginning of the adventure, word
of the evacuation has just arrived. Most of the Corps' personnel
will decide to remain in place rather than risk the journey
to Bremerhaven.

Going Home, p. 14


Consensus here seemed to be that the authors made a mistake, because no PACT units are shown on any canonical maps being between XI Corps and Bremerhaven. No one here could really come up with an explanation that dealt with the paradox with a high degree of plausibility and realism, and/or agreed with other forumites' sensibilities. As I see it, this leaves the "why" very much up to the discretion of the individual GM. In my T2KU, XI Corps remains behind by choice, due to political machinations between MilGov, CivGov, and the Polish Free Congress.

[Olefin]

Its one thing if the US forces had stayed and not evacuated - then you can see them as staying where they were as a bridgehead for further operations in Poland or perhaps a way for the Germans to try to reclaim that area of Poland which was their territory before their loss in WWII.

That could be an interesting way to look at it - i.e. they werent written off they stayed where they were till the Germans could move forces there in the spring to be able to reclaim that area for themselves.

Maybe as part of the Omega deal - i.e. you claim to have "written them off" so they dont try to leave - or we feed them false info to make them stay thinking it would be suicide to try to break thru huge Warsaw Pact forces when in reality there arent any. Then we move there in the spring or summer of 2001 and they can come home then - and in exchange we give you the oil and ships for the evacuation - and you give us tanks and armor so we can not only get to them but hold the ground once we are there

It does make some sense

Its either that or the rest of the Corps choose to hold their ground to give the 8th a fighting chance to get back to them and blast a corridor open when the time comes and then try to go back in a group

Still dont know how the 8th had enough fuel to end up where they did - not unless they lucked into some gas or diesel - thats a loooonnnggg way from the rest of the US forces to get there on ethanol and methanol

[Tombot]

Originally Posted by Olefin

Its one thing if the US forces had stayed and not evacuated - then you can see them as staying where they were as a bridgehead for further operations in Poland or perhaps a way for the Germans to try to reclaim that area of Poland which was their territory before their loss in WWII..."

l

The first part sounds convincing (for former-NATO as a whole), but the second not so much..
What kind of interest should the rest of germany have in that ? Do the few survivors really need to reclaim "soil in the east" ?
I think they´ll have enough to do amongst themselves (scrounging & securing their destroyed citys, etc.).

[Olefin]

Tom - I am looking at it from the perspective of the last offensive that NATO conducted that led to the destruction of the 5th

If you look at their reasoning (i.e. to control the areas in Poland around their seacoast and also a possible linkup with anti-Soviet forces in the Baltics) you could see that the area in question is also a big part of the area the Germans gave up at the end of WWII, including the area that used to be East Prussia.

And while they have more than enough to do at home (and I agree completely with you there) you could see reactionary elements within whats left of the German government and army wanting to restore a Greater Germany - look at how much the German Army has in Austria for instance - you would have to wonder if part of why they are there is to restore the Anschluss de facto (i.e. we are protecting you and keeping the Russians out and maybe you want to make that permanent)

and it may not even be the whole German Army thinkign it - could even be a piece of it wanting their own little empire to build for their very own and thinking using the Americans that are left behind is a great way to acheive it

[Raellus]

@Lordroi: I'll have to take another look but I don't remember any Dutch units in Going Home listed as being in Poland or eastern Germany c.2000. I'll also check the NATO Vehicle Guide. My map focusses on Germany's "Eastern Front". Some day, when I have some extra time, I'll see about adding any/all of the German, Dutch, French, and Belgian units (listed in Going Home) to the the border regions in the west.

@Tombot and Olefin: I think Olefin's ideas about at least some Germans having designs on "East Prussia" have some merit. Germany has historical ties to the region that go back to the Teutonic Knights in the late Middle Ages. More recently, much of Poland's Baltic coast was annexed by the Third Reich. Any remaining connections create the potential for some interesting political machinations between reactionary/expansionist factions of the German government, such as it is c.2000, and elements of XI Corps that remain in NW Poland after Omega. At the very least, it's a motive for wannabe German warlords in the area.