TW2k13

[unkated]

I'll apologize if this is not the right place, but can someone summarise the differences between the mechanics of T2013 vs T2K V2.2?

Thanks,

Uncle Ted

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by unkated

I'll apologize if this is not the right place, but can someone summarise the differences between the mechanics of T2013 vs T2K V2.2?

Thanks,

Uncle Ted

This is the perfect place to explain the mechanics of the various Twilight versions for anyone who hasn't had exposure to all of them.

Version 1: A percentile based game (you have a 40% chance to hit him).

Version 2: A slightly simplified system that included the revolutionary recoil rules and a Skill System based on a 1d10 roll.

Version 2.2: An "enhanced" version 2 rule set that transitioned to the 1D20 die roll system and added a "controlling attribute" to the skill level which created an asset for a beginning target number (ie. Small Arms skill level 2 + AGL of 6 equals an asset of 8). Version 2.2 was the most "polished" of the editions but I believe version 1 was "smoother" in play for most beginning players. It's hard to beat a simple percentile system.

Twilight 2013: The game to uses a specialized gaming system called The Reflex System. In the Reflex system; The character's attributes (base attributes are from 1 to 10) are used as "base target numbers" for any skills the character has learned. This base target number is modified by various bonuses and penalties. Skill levels are not used directly for task resolution though. The character's skill levels are referenced on a chart to get a "Skill Rating" from Unskilled through to Master Ratings. Each of these ratings allow one or more dice (from 1 die for Novice, up to 5 dice for Master) to be rolled. To determine your success in the Reflex System; You take the lowest successful die roll and subtract it from your target number. To this number you will add +2 for EACH additional successful die roll. The total of these numbers is your Margin of Success. This Margin of Success is used to determine the effect of your success in game. You would also have a Margin of Failure if none of your dice rolls succeeded. Twilight 2013 had some issues due to the complexity of the Reflex System (they can be math heavy and therefore cumbersome in use) but was pretty well written. Some of the rules are better than the previous editions. I like the reconstruction rules, The psychological damage rules and the rules on Coolness Under Fire (the best thought out of these rules in all of the editions).

In fact; I'm mixing and matching the aspects of all of the editions which I think work the best. I primarily use the version 2.2 rules but include elements of all the editions in my game.

[Tnchi2a]

Well one thing that should be brought up is that most of the differences between variants are not stat based.

example: the M1A1D is just a M1A1 with a new digital package added, basically GPS and battlefield computers.

Also some of the tanks are just older tanks with different names.
Exp: Type 59 MBT (T-54A),Al-Hussein (Challanger 1),Olifant 1 (Centurion), ETC.

The thing that would be the most work is the armor ratings because most if not all of the other stats are on the internet.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by Tnchi2a

Well one thing that should be brought up is that most of the differences between variants are not stat based.

example: the M1A1D is just a M1A1 with a new digital package added, basically GPS and battlefield computers.

Also some of the tanks are just older tanks with different names.
Exp: Type 59 MBT (T-54A),Al-Hussein (Challanger 1),Olifant 1 (Centurion), ETC.

The thing that would be the most work is the armor ratings because most if not all of the other stats are on the internet.

Does the M1A1D get land navigation bonuses for the working digital package? Does EMP mean the crew get a penalty for land navigation until this is repaired or replaced? There's more to think about for some variants.

[Tegyrius]

Missed this until now...

Originally Posted by swaghauler

Twilight 2013: The second game to use a specialized gaming system called The Reflex System. The first game was called The Swing (think Shadow Run meets Call of Cuthulu).

Point of order: Reflex was developed for Twilight: 2013 and was used only for that game. The Swing preceded Twilight: 2013 by several years and used a separate homebrew system devised by its author, Keith Taylor.

- C.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Tegyrius

Missed this until now...



Point of order: Reflex was developed for Twilight: 2013 and was used only for that game. The Swing preceded Twilight: 2013 by several years and used a separate homebrew system devised by its author, Keith Taylor.

- C.

I'll take your word for it. The Swing was supposed to come out in the Reflex system about a month after TW2k13. Twilight got set back and didn't release when it was supposed to (took me 6 more months to get my copy) so I made the (apparently wrong) assumption that The Swing made it to print first (since it was only an update on a older game). I do know of the older Swing your speaking of. It used a system known as The Step System but I have never managed to get hold of either version (if the Reflex version was even released). Thanks for the clarification, I modified my previous post to prevent confusion.

[Trongard]

Greetings All!!!

I hope to get answers to my 2013 questions...

Only two to start with:

1) Medic, as an EMT (or general medic), can you guestimate the Muscle/Fitness loss for a Coma?

2) On page 175, the example at the bottom of the first column says "A critical injury reduces Pete’s Muscle from 9 to 8." Yet, when I look into critical injuries, there is no mention of possible loss of Muscle... Did our author forget something?

Sorry if these are a bit much, all at once, but I have a game I'm running that could have such challenges...

[Medic]

As a medical professional (registered nurse with experience from EMS, OR, ER and ICU, not to mention Combat Medical NCO), I would say one loses one point of both every three days, unless someone administers physical therapy and the character in question passes a Fitness check.

However, the rules state as follows:

Originally Posted by Twilight 2013, page 173

After a critical injury’s modified healing time is up, make a Resolve check. If the check succeeds, one critically injured hit location of your choice heals to a serious injury. If the check fails, you must then make a Fitness check. If this check fails as well, your character receives a permanent impairment (see p. 175) to one randomly-selected critically injured hit location.

The page 175 comments on Physical Therapy and, if you read it through, it gives you an official rule on the subject - imho, the character in the receiving end doesn't have to be awake for the physical therapy to work (we did that quite a bit in the ICU, especially on long term patients). If left untreated, then a comatose patient would lose Muscle and Fitness quickly.

[Trongard]

I was thinking of Coma as a life phase (i.e.: with physical therapy, etc. [Think Steven Seagal in Hard to Kill]). Also, I wasn't referencing the Physical Therapy portion of page 175... I was referencing the lack of an explained condition of critical injury causing Muscle loss...

I guess I was vague.

3) How would you go about custom gunsmithing for an expert, or higher, Artisan (Gunsmithing) with an average Education?

Thanks for the info so far!
Tg