NATO Small Arms production in late stages of Twilight War

[Anna Elizabeth]

Does anyone think that soldiers in T2K would buy or make brass catchers for their weapons? Perhaps there is something about brass catchers that would hinder performance, so I don't know.

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by Anna Elizabeth

Does anyone think that soldiers in T2K would buy or make brass catchers for their weapons? Perhaps there is something about brass catchers that would hinder performance, so I don't know.

Good question Anna I dont the troops buying brass catchers as ammo only becomes scare in the later stages of the war as fewers and fewers ships arrive in europe and by that time getting itmes from the mail wouldnt happen. If you found them in europe odds are the troops would just take them no purchase nessary lol

I think you see a lot of field-expedient aka home made ones using whatever troops could find. The weapon system and way the round is ejected would determine if it hinder performance. For example weapons mounted on vehicles or to fixed postions might have a sandbag attached by some wire for a catcher

[Anna Elizabeth]

That makes sense. I've seen ads for brass catchers on AR-15-type weapons, but what is nice for a hobbyist might not work in the field.

[rcaf_777]

I also think PC might want to pick all the brass after a firefight that they win anybody know what a spent casing weights?

[Schone23666]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

I also think PC might want to pick all the brass after a firefight that they win anybody know what a spent casing weights?

That depends partly on what material the casings are made out of, doesn't it? Might not make much difference if you're just picking up a few dozen casings, but several hundred you might begin to feel the difference.

I know brass is a common material for a lot of cartridges, but the Soviets among others were still using some lacquered steel casings, weren't they? I think there was a thread around here somewhere that had some discussion on Soviet steel-cased ammo.

Another thing to take into consideration is that the ejection action on some weapons, depending on the make and model can be pretty violent and either damage or even rip the case in half.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

As a rough rule of thumb: -
1. any Heckler & Koch firearm of the G3 & MP5 family and related designs (e.g. CETME Model C) will all damage the brass due to their roller-delayed blowback operation. Most other designs will only do minor/inconsequential/no damage unless it's a catastrophic failure of the ammo or the random chance that the ejected brass hits the sides of the ejection port (the H&K weapons increase this random chance to a positive certainty!).
2. Soviets used lacquered steel cases to save on brass (brass was a strategic metal they never seemed to have enough of).


P.S. the steel cases were lacquered to stop them from rusting so we're not talking about high quality steel, even with that they can still be reloaded a few times however.

[CDAT]

Originally Posted by Anna Elizabeth

That makes sense. I've seen ads for brass catchers on AR-15-type weapons, but what is nice for a hobbyist might not work in the field.

I have seen some of the aviation guys using them. My understating is that the only issues they may cause is when they get full they will jam the weapon, most that I have seen would hold at most 100 spent cases, less if they get jumbled up badly. I would guess they are good for two, maybe three magazines out of most rifles.

[Twilight2000v3MM]

I own an HK 93. I can tell you... you can reload that brass normally.

You "can" reload steel cased ammo. Its just harder on the equipment.

The only issue I see with reloading in a T2K enviornment is making the ammo to function reliably. Casings... no problems. Primers and actual FMJ type projectiles are much harder. Powder IDK it would seem that you would need good components.

I'd love to hear ideas on this.... :-)

[Apache6]

Photos from messing of 2d MARDIV in Poland. A German made mess kit issued to Sgt Jamie Carol. A wild pig, 'sniped' by a Marine from 2/6.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I think the biggest problem with reloading military smallarms ammo at the cottage industry level, is something that we have mentioned on the forum before but doesn't seem to be been brought up again in this thread - removal/replacement of the primer from used cases.

Most military rifle ammo (including from Eastern Europe) has been using Berdan primers for pretty much all of the 20th century. Berdan primer cases have two small flash holes and a centreline anvil where the flash hole would be on Boxer primer ammo (Boxer priming is found on nearly all common civilian centrefire ammo made in the USA as well as places like Australia). Basically, Berdan primers are a simple cup whereas Boxer primers are a two piece design that incorporates an anvil. On both types, the priming compound is crushed between the firing pin and the anvil to cause ignition of the gunpowder.

Special tools are available to remove Berdan primers but they are not likely to be widespread in the warzones. Boxer primed ammo is relatively easy to deprime and requires little more than a hole punch of a width suitable for the flash hole.
Berdan priming was, as far as I can tell, chosen for most military forces around the world because Boxer primers were far more complex to manufacture in the 1800s. This would have been of obvious importance in the past but with mass production factories of the 1900s, it's less so now.
Examples of Berdan (on the left) and Boxer (on the right) primer ammunition


As mentioned, special tools are available to remove Berdan primers and some reloaders have even found methods to convert Berdan primed ammo to a Boxer primer. However there is a simple way to remove Berdan primers that requires tools no more complex than those used for removing Boxer primers and the principles of hydraulics. Basically, fill the case with water and use a suitable width rod to put pressure on the water thus causing the water to force the primer out.
Here's a short (8 mins) YouTube video showing a conversion of Berdan to Boxer ammo plus using the hydraulic technique to remove the Berdan primers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkKJfvMyuDg
and here's another vid (approx 10 mins) showing another person's method of removing the Berdan primers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQNDgjcgofY
And this thread shows a dry method (i.e. no use of water) of removing the Berdan primer along with the main point of converting Berdan ammo to Boxer.
http://parallaxscurioandrelicfirearm...l#.VZicpBuqpBc

I think all these methods would be "discovered" in the T2k world depending on a community's ability to make the required primers and while not something that many Players might care about, it does add an extra layer to the game that can be useful for fleshing out the world or even as seeds for adventure scenarios.
For a more informed report, the wiki article on centrefire ammo is a good start.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centerfire_ammunition

[.45cultist]

There was a middle aged guy prowling the abandoned truckstop outside town. He wasn't looking through the wrecks, just the lot. When asked, he held up what looked like and ingot,"Just looking for wheel weights, gotta feed my weapons." He carried an old Colt auto in a battered thumb break holster, it's mag had a lead alloy that was like a hardball load. He had molds for his CAR-15 and swaged old .22LR cases for jackets. Captain later made a deal for him to load some of our brass. He also turned out to be quite a scavenger. Just a quick one, I'm looking at my "Homefront" notes for a dependent based campaign. The guy described was married to an staff officer and a part of the "officer's wives club" as a source of heavy work.