Tank graveyard

[Raellus]

A lot of those tanks appear to covered in reactive armor blocks. Wouldn't that mean that there was explosive still in there? How would that hold up over time and exposed to the elements?

[Targan]

I saw that article earlier this week on a T2K page on Facebook. Incredible pictures.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Raellus

A lot of those tanks appear to covered in reactive armor blocks. Wouldn't that mean that there was explosive still in there? How would that hold up over time and exposed to the elements?

I wondered the same thing.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

Those tanks would have all been long-before committed to the front. What they'd find is an empty, weedy lot.

Undoubtedly, but what if by some miracle they were still there? Or it was full of battle damaged tanks - not impossible since the facility was meant to refurbish tanks.

Originally Posted by Raellus

A lot of those tanks appear to covered in reactive armour blocks. Wouldn't that mean that there was explosive still in there? How would that hold up over time and exposed to the elements?

I would think the blocks are sealed from the elements, but after 20 years or so who knows? VERY slack to have left them installed I'd think, even with the guards the facility is supposed to have, but then it is in the Ukraine and nobody ever accused communist/socialist workers of being particularly efficient at anything...

[ArmySGT.]

Visit the German tank graveyard if you are playing a later timeline.

http://www.urbanghostsmedia.com/2015...ling-facility/

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Visit the German tank graveyard if you are playing a later timeline.

http://www.urbanghostsmedia.com/2015...ling-facility/

All that hardware being scrapped! I could almost cry!

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Undoubtedly, but what if by some miracle they were still there? Or it was full of battle damaged tanks - not impossible since the facility was meant to refurbish tanks.

And when the same question gets brought up about the Littlefield Collection or the Patton Museum the response is that it's an impossibility. So I would rate this junkyard the same, then.

[Legbreaker]

Museums aren't large workshops specifically intended to refurbish and repair AFVs (although they may have a small workshop attached). Therefore the likelihood of vehicles being present has to be greater (although still relatively low).
This of course presumes the facility and the factory down the road weren't targeted by nukes or bombed conventionally until they were wastelands (highly likely).

[StainlessSteelCynic]

The other important distinction is that a museum like the Littlefield Collection or the Patton Museum typically has one, two, maybe three examples of a given vehicle and they have a large range of different vehicles, all with their own requirements for parts & maintenance.
A refurbishing/maintenance/repair depot has dozens upon dozens of the same vehicle moving through so the likelihood of having the right repair gear and the correct spare parts for that vehicle is much, much higher.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Museums aren't large workshops specifically intended to refurbish and repair AFVs (although they may have a small workshop attached).

Littlefield and a handful of volunteers took absolute wrecks and turned them into not only factory-fresh looking but running and fully operational examples of AFVs, and not just WWII vehicles either (and what of it if they were WWII-era: if I have a tank, even if it's very very old and you have no tank at all I win).

His "small machine shop" helped get a hundred various AFVs up and running. So discounting some of the Soviet equipment he might not have in the T2k setting and...what, that still leaves 80-90 pieces.

I'm not trying to rehash the seemingly endless debate about whether or not the MVTS is a viable resource, but I think it's utterly hypocritical for anyone to say "Oh look a bunch of non-running Soviet tanks that have been sitting in the elements for over a decade, these are totally usable" and then dismiss the MVTS as useless, or next-to as the sometimes conciliatory posts seem to be. More to the point, I reiterate: those tanks would have already been used, and would have never fallen to that state anyway. At the worst they'd have been a Category-B division, well before the bombs.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

Littlefield and a handful of volunteers took absolute wrecks and turned them into not only factory-fresh looking but running and fully operational examples of AFVs, and not just WWII vehicles either (and what of it if they were WWII-era: if I have a tank, even if it's very very old and you have no tank at all I win).

Rolled Homogenous armor, No spall liner, no fuel compartmentalization, No crew compartmentalization, no fire suppression gear, unprotected fuel lines, engine covers and compartment lack diversions for burning fuel (molotovs), most importantly no ammunition compartmentalization.

Any WW2 armor is going to be separated from infantry support and artillery then killed in detail by modern experienced infantrymen.

I give it 10 minutes if in the defense and under two if someone were to try to use one in an attack.

Tanks are not invulnerable.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Rolled Homogenous armor, No spall liner, no fuel compartmentalization, No crew compartmentalization, no fire suppression gear, unprotected fuel lines, engine covers and compartment lack diversions for burning fuel (molotovs), most importantly no ammunition compartmentalization.

Any WW2 armor is going to be separated from infantry support and artillery then killed in detail by modern experienced infantrymen.

I give it 10 minutes if in the defense and under two if someone were to try to use one in an attack.

Tanks are not invulnerable.

never said they are - but most marauder forces are hardly experienced infantrymen - most dont have any training at all in how to take on tanks - and it also depends if those commanding the tanks are stupid enough to send them into an urban environment where its a lot easier to kill them - its one thing to rain Molotov's down from the rooftops its another to go after a tank sitting in the open without good cover nearby to get close - especially if the tank has sufficient machine gun ammo on board for the coax and any turret mounted machine guns - if its just main gun weaponry then that tank is dead meat

and modern anti-tank weaponry, by 2001, is getting pretty scarce outside of areas that were battlefields - you wont find many marauders with TOW's or RPG's in Iowa for instance - so again that tank resurrected from the local museum may be quite the force multiplier for the local milita

as for MilGov forces using the older tanks - now you have older tanks supported by experienced infantry and artillery - which makes them quite effective indeed

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Rolled Homogenous armor, No spall liner, no fuel compartmentalization, No crew compartmentalization, no fire suppression gear, unprotected fuel lines, engine covers and compartment lack diversions for burning fuel (molotovs), most importantly no ammunition compartmentalization.

Any WW2 armor is going to be separated from infantry support and artillery then killed in detail by modern experienced infantrymen.

I give it 10 minutes if in the defense and under two if someone were to try to use one in an attack.

Tanks are not invulnerable.

Which doesnt keep the Soviets from equipping divisions with T-54's and T-55's in the game - they are a pretty common tank - so given your above comment shouldnt they have all been destroyed long before 2001? (when in game canon they are still in deployed divisions in Europe, Korea, China and Iran and still effective)

Thus a tank that has none of the advantages and features of more modern tanks, designed during WWII, is still fighting on the battlefields of the Twilight War as an effective tank.

Let alone the M48, the M60, the Leopard I, the AMX-30, etc.. - all of which are part of the game and all of which dont have composite armor, although some were retrofitted with reactive armor blocks to help against HEAT

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Museums aren't large workshops specifically intended to refurbish and repair AFVs (although they may have a small workshop attached). Therefore the likelihood of vehicles being present has to be greater (although still relatively low).
This of course presumes the facility and the factory down the road weren't targeted by nukes or bombed conventionally until they were wastelands (highly likely).

Ok lets say this one more time since its been said ad naseum before - Littlefield's museum/collection had a fully equipped shop to repair and refurbish tanks and other armored vehicles including speciality welding fixtures, equipment that you could fit an entire tank body in and rotate it in order to make welding and armor repair more efficient, a stock of spare parts that would make most depots jealous and specially trained technicians and welders and machinists that not only could but did recreate needed spare parts from blueprints he had to bring tanks and other armored vehicles back to fully operational status including, in many cases, live barrels and breech blocks to replace ones that had been de-milled. (and if they couldnt make it he found it and bought it - and in the US its amazing what you can find - for example the Auction Hunter episode where they found a storage bin with a live tank barrel in it)

And most of the Soviet stuff he had on hand he got from places in Africa or Asia that used to operate it - including some that the Israelis had captured. Thus if the Soviets don't fall he still has most of his collection that he had in our world - not the SCUD of course but the older Soviet stuff - yup.

This wasnt a static display of equipment that was painted to look new - this was basically a fully operational tank repair facility that had a museum attached to it

[Olefin]

And fyi - a lot of military equipment gets brought back from the dead from similiar graveyards all the time by collectors and sometimes even companies like BAE - when we built M109A5+ vehicles foe Chile we had to get parts from all over - some of which were in very very bad shape but could be reclaimed still with effort. And you would be amazed what vehicles we refurbish look like when we got them back from depots - I saw M109's and M88's that literally you would think were total wrecks that we managed to restore to fully operational status

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I agree, the Littlefield Collection for example, is a very good resource. As long as you have sufficient personnel with the right skills and sufficient resources to get the parts & to refurbish them.
It is an amazing resource, but it is not the panacea that it's often presented as.