Tank graveyard

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Olefin

except Littlefield wont be deploying any Panzers as none of them have live barrels (and most of the Shermans he has are heavily modified Super Shermans he got from Israel)

That puts an end to the Littlefield machine shop being able to produce anything theory.

Originally Posted by Olefin

as for the rest that you mentioned as non-survivable - they must be surviveable because the M48 has been fighting in Turkey, the AMX in Germany, Africa and the US (its probably the tank the Mexicans would have), the Leopard I (the original version without the improved armor) in Europe, the M60 in a bunch of US divisions in Korea, Iran, Europe and the US - otherwise they wouldnt be in the various canon books showing them as still on the equipment rosters of those forces

The Leopard I has always had composite armor as original armor...it is a product of the MBT - 70 program.

As for the rest.... the authors made a lot of interesting and imaginative but, sadly now canon choices....... like the Navies for example.

If those are around, functional, with trained crews, fuel, and ammunition then they must be part of Division and Corps reserved in case the other guy commits his armor to a massed attack to achieve a break through and deep battle.

This and many WW2, Korea, and Viet Nam fighting vehicles were repaired and returned to service even after entire crews have been killed more than once..... if it wasn't fire or a catastrophic ammo detonation repair was probable given trained maintenance personnel and new or cannibalized parts.

[Olefin]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

That puts an end to the Littlefield machine shop being able to produce anything theory.



The Leopard I has always had composite armor as original armor...it is a product of the MBT - 70 program.

As for the rest.... the authors made a lot of interesting and imaginative but, sadly now canon choices....... like the Navies for example.

If those are around, functional, with trained crews, fuel, and ammunition then they must be part of Division and Corps reserved in case the other guy commits his armor to a massed attack to achieve a break through and deep battle.

This and many WW2, Korea, and Viet Nam fighting vehicles were repaired and returned to service even after entire crews have been killed more than once..... if it wasn't fire or a catastrophic ammo detonation repair was probable given trained maintenance personnel and new or cannibalized parts.

no those tanks are in front line units - one of the best units in the Soviet forces in Iran, per the RDF and Kings Ransom, is armed with T-55's and its a frontline unit facing US and Iranian forces - ditto many other Soviet forces

and I never said he could make live barrels - the vehicles with those either had them to begin with or he bought them when they were available and had them in storage waiting to refit the vehicles - not everything he had was live - but there were enough to form a nice composite mech battalion when you add in the APC's and SPG's that worked and were functional as well - and none of them were Panzers

and live barrels are out there - Auction hunters found one in a storage bin for a M3 Stuart in Mass

[Panther Al]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

The Leopard I has always had composite armor as original armor...it is a product of the MBT - 70 program.

You have your Leo's confused.

The Leo 1 Predates the MBT70 program, where as the Leo 2 program was built off of the German successor to the failed MBT70. So, no, the Leo 1 has no composite armour as originally built (later marks did on the turret, after a fashion).

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Panther Al

You have your Leo's confused.

The Leo 1 Predates the MBT70 program, where as the Leo 2 program was built off of the German successor to the failed MBT70. So, no, the Leo 1 has no composite armour as originally built (later marks did on the turret, after a fashion).

You're probably right. I am thinking of some cut away views of various tanks and Leo I's where a part of that. Might be a later model of Leo I that I am thinking of.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I see such places as the Littlefield collection as a great resource but for their workshops, not so much for the vehicles.
I think this because I see the major issue with trying to bring older armoured vehicles back to life is simple economics - how many resources are you going to consume to bring back a very mixed fleet of vehicles with limited potential?

I think the newer vehicles might be brought back for direct combat and the older vehicles for recce work depending on the perceived threat but they all will be subject to the economics - is it really worth pouring all these resources into a vehicle that could be fuel hungry, has no ammo, has limited spares, is a maintenance hog etc. etc.
I think the answer can be yes but on a very limited scale. If not, they're going to be destroyed so the enemy can't get them.

These places simply don't have the resources that a proper vehicle maintenance facility has access to. If you end up committing serious quantities of materiel on a vehicle or three that you are a bit nervous of sending into combat for any of the reasons mentioned above - then yes, sometimes no vehicle is better than any vehicle.

Plus any armoured vehicle recovered from a museum/collector's fleet may not be as armoured as it looks. There's no telling how much damage the armour took before it was restored because these places want a vehicle that looks as though it's working, they don't need to replace damaged armour plates with new armour plates. In most cases it would either be too expensive or they simply wouldn't be allowed to buy armour plate - if you want it, you cut up a donor vehicle for it.

Like I say, I think the workshops are the real treasure in these places, all those tools and POL stores, stocks of basic metal and various fasteners (rivets, bolts etc. etc.) They'll be worth more for keeping current vehicles running than they will be for resurrecting older types.