Mexican Army Equipment 1995

[Olefin]

but again keep in mind who they fought at least initially - mostly a collection of small National Guard transportation and military police companies, SWAT teams, local militia and State Guards who probably had almost no way to stop any kind of armor

[Draq]

Most US forces were in Europe, Africa, Iran, Korea/Japan/china.

[Olefin]

basically all there was as to armor still in the US was the 36th that was deployed to the north and one mech infantry division that was reforming - that and two independent armored brigades (which if I remember right were training brigades)

the new light divisions were either truck born or foot infantry - if they were lucky they probably had some M113's but thats about it

there were several MP brigades but they only had light armor at best - and considering vehicle losses in Europe they may have had everything except their Hummers taken away and sent there instead

and I think the 42nd got sent to Yugoslavia before the Mexicans crossed the border and thus they were out of the picture

and canon missed the training brigade in California- but at best they would have had Sheridan's and M113 made to look like BMP's and Soviet tanks

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by Olefin

basically all there was as to armor still in the US was the 36th that was deployed to the north and one mech infantry division that was reforming - that and two independent armored brigades (which if I remember right were training brigades)

the new light divisions were either truck born or foot infantry - if they were lucky they probably had some M113's but thats about it

there were several MP brigades but they only had light armor at best - and considering vehicle losses in Europe they may have had everything except their Hummers taken away and sent there instead

and I think the 42nd got sent to Yugoslavia before the Mexicans crossed the border and thus they were out of the picture

and canon missed the training brigade in California- but at best they would have had Sheridan's and M113 made to look like BMP's and Soviet tanks

You'd be amazed as to the amount of LAWS and the like are available to such units.

[Olefin]

normally I would say yes - but considering how long the war had been going on, how much had been sold to the Chinese and how much had to have been shipped over to Europe and Iran and Korea before the TDM the question is how much anti-armor was left - and with CivGov and MilGov playing at shipping men over to Europe still how much of what was left did they take with them?

normally I would say they had more than enough LAW's and the like to give a good showing - but they werent expecting a Mexican attack - meaning those units along the border may not have been equipped to deal with armor

they were on missions to secure the border against refugees - thats more of a riot control mission - so did they go with their anti-armor equipment left behind at the depots?

consider that transport by then had broken down - given that they may have sent them without a lot of their anti-armor and anti-air weaponry - possibly even without any light armored vehicles they had as well to conserve fuel

now they eventually did get them because they stopped the Mexicans eventually - but could that explain the Mexican success - possibly

after all a bunch of troops with riot gear, light weapons and maybe at most tear gas and stunning grenades arent going to be able to stand up to an armored attack, even if its not a tank heavy one

and with air units restricted due to lack of fuel they may not have even known the Mexicans were building up to attack until it was too late (i.e. sounding the alarm when they are crossing the border into El Paso with Stuarts is way way too late)

[Raellus]

I'm one of the folks- a minority, it appears- who is OK with the Mexican invasion/occupation scenario presented in T2K v1.0. I find that it makes a much more interesting setting for CONUS-based campaigns. Therefore, I like to find ways to make it more plausible, instead of tearing it down as impossible.

With that in mind, it's possible that the Mexican army kept its mid-'60s era Sedena-Henschel HWK-11s in storage and that they could have reopened the production lines that manufactured them.

Also, due to the continuation of the Cold War in the v1.0 timeline, it's possible that a more left-leaning Mexico could have acquired additional IFVs from China or the Soviet Union, especially if there were increased tensions between Mexico and the U.S.A. (border security, "War on Drugs", trade disputes). Even 40 Chicom Type 59 MBTs could have been a handful for the the American forces still in CONUS when the Mexican invasion occurred. If Soviet or Chicom weapons would have been too risky, diplomatically, there were Brazilian and Argentinian IFVs on the market as well.

I'm fine with a little buffing of the Mexican Armed Forces, if it makes for a more interesting campaign.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Raellus

I'm one of the folks- a minority, it appears- who is OK with the Mexican invasion/occupation scenario presented in T2K v1.0. I find that it makes a much more interesting setting for CONUS-based campaigns. Therefore, I like to find ways to make it more plausible, instead of tearing it down as impossible.

I'm with Raellus on this. We're presented with the game which comes with certain "facts" about the world. Work with that information, not against it.

Change the world too much and you're no longer playing Twilight:2000, but something that only uses the game mechanics - may as well go play starwars or robotech instead.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Also, due to the continuation of the Cold War in the v1.0 timeline, it's possible that a more left-leaning Mexico could have acquired additional IFVs from China or the Soviet Union, especially if there were increased tensions between Mexico and the U.S.A. (border security, "War on Drugs", trade disputes). Even 40 Chicom Type 59 MBTs could have been a handful for the the American forces still in CONUS when the Mexican invasion occurred. If Soviet or Chicom weapons would have been too risky, diplomatically, there were Brazilian and Argentinian IFVs on the market as well.

I'm fine with a little buffing of the Mexican Armed Forces, if it makes for a more interesting campaign.

My position also.

[mpipes]

I was always dubious that the historical Mexican Army would have been in any shape to conduct offensive operations against even a modest residual force in the US. You would have had a considerable number of troops (and armor) still in the CONUS, with much of it out in the field doing relief. While many would have been state guard troops, police and civilians, there would have still been considerable numbers of National Guard troops present, combat veterans who for one reason or another had been sent home (e.g. wounded, 40th Div, etc). There were also divisions, according to cannon, fully trained but awaiting deployment (e.g., 49th Armored).

I drafted some notes based on a hypothetical buildup by Mexico. I think some such buildup would have been necessary for a successful invasion.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Olefin

normally I would say yes - but considering how long the war had been going on, how much had been sold to the Chinese and how much had to have been shipped over to Europe and Iran and Korea before the TDM the question is how much anti-armor was left - and with CivGov and MilGov playing at shipping men over to Europe still how much of what was left did they take with them?

normally I would say they had more than enough LAW's and the like to give a good showing - but they werent expecting a Mexican attack - meaning those units along the border may not have been equipped to deal with armor

they were on missions to secure the border against refugees - thats more of a riot control mission - so did they go with their anti-armor equipment left behind at the depots?

consider that transport by then had broken down - given that they may have sent them without a lot of their anti-armor and anti-air weaponry - possibly even without any light armored vehicles they had as well to conserve fuel

now they eventually did get them because they stopped the Mexicans eventually - but could that explain the Mexican success - possibly

after all a bunch of troops with riot gear, light weapons and maybe at most tear gas and stunning grenades arent going to be able to stand up to an armored attack, even if its not a tank heavy one

and with air units restricted due to lack of fuel they may not have even known the Mexicans were building up to attack until it was too late (i.e. sounding the alarm when they are crossing the border into El Paso with Stuarts is way way too late)

When you deploy you deploy with everything. Every long deployment I have been on the barracks are cleaned out, the troops personal items are picked up by movers, and the buildings turned over to Garrison for issue to another unit.

Your connexes are shipped by truck or rail, ship if necessary. Everything goes because your unit has no buildings or motor pool to call home.

Any rear detachment is working out of temporary offices in your parent battalion or brigade.

Everything goes, every scrap of kit because mission change happens or your shuffled to another larger parent unit.

I have three brigade combat patches for one deployment being shuffled around theater.

There is one caveat.......... All MP units are not equal..... There is three distinct MP company types and then detachments.

Division MP, Corps MP, EPW MP (also rail guards and escort guards) , and then detachments like dog handlers.

There is wide variance in MTOE for these types and equipment not normally on MTOE for that type. Example, 82nd MP is the Division MP company for the 82nd ABN Division... They unlike most MP companies have the FIM92A stinger on their MTOE because the Division Commander requires it.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by .45cultist

You'd be amazed as to the amount of LAWS and the like are available to such units.

In Iraq in 03, we built a sand bagged bunk to store excess.... there was to much to carry anytime we left the wire. A claymore per truck, two (then later one) AT4, six (then 4, then 2, then 1) frag, so much smoke (HC, color), spare smoke candles for the dischargers on the M1114s.

One lucky hit and any of our trucks probably would have cooked off for an hour.