a bit of politics and history?

[kato13]

I am probably being overly concerned, but in the last 24 years I have seen more boards than I can count enter into a death spiral of childish behavior over politics. Modern politics seems to be a particular problem as it is not an abstract mental exercise but a actual choice that one makes or has made.

IIRC this board only progressed to the point of passive name calling (ie "if you don't agree, you are an idiot" or "only an idiot would think .....") but it was almost enough to cause me to leave, even though I was not directly involved in the discussion. My belief in the people here kept me from leaving, and they did not disappoint me with the maturity that was eventually displayed.

All topics are open but please tread lightly. This board is my baby now and I will protect it.

[General Pain]

Originally Posted by kato13

I am probably being overly concerned, but in the last 24 years I have seen more boards than I can count enter into a death spiral of childish behavior over politics. Modern politics seems to be a particular problem as it is not an abstract mental exercise but a actual choice that one makes or has made.

IIRC this board only progressed to the point of passive name calling (ie "if you don't agree, you are an idiot" or "only an idiot would think .....") but it was almost enough to cause me to leave, even though I was not directly involved in the discussion. My belief in the people here kept me from leaving, and they did not disappoint me with the maturity that was eventually displayed.

All topics are open but please tread lightly. This board is my baby now and I will protect it.

I agree.... I used to be an atheist but now I realize I'm GOD.

[Targan]

So politics huh? Well, I'm impressed by the fact that when the US banking system makes some mistakes and suffers a crash as a consequence, boy does it take most of the rest of the world with it. Hard core and sad.

[Mohoender]

So far the rest of the world is far from being down unless you coun't out China, India and Russia (about 50% of it). Nobody's is saying it but the Indian stock exchange is going up for most of the time. As we (Western countries) are saving banks with money we don't have (according to our various state deficit) someone might currently be buying a good chunk of our respective countries. May be we should start learning Cantonese, Mandarin or any Indian language .

Future will tell but nobody knows it, and obviously not our political leaders (Oops, U.S. still is in the process of choosing one).

[jester]

[QUOTE=Mohoender

Future will tell but nobody knows it, and obviously not our political leaders (Oops, U.S. still is in the process of choosing one).[/QUOTE]


As the line goes,

"Its a huge shit sandwich and we all gotta take a bite."

As for the politics and finance issue.

Well that is a big problem with international investment, and dare I go there, I dare, the European Union and tying its currency to the Euro.

It is strong generaly, and some of it was at the stake of dragging down one countries and propping up others, but when something bad happens <like now> they domino as is happening.

Remember, with issues of finance, there is always risk. And if you tie your finances to other systems well then you are exposed to the problems of that system.

A big issue here in the US is the home loan system and dare I, yes I dare SCANDAL! Part of it was several years ago the government demanded and investigated mortgage lenders for not lending to low income disadvantaged people. And other less scrupulous lenders manipulated the books lending to people who did not have the ability and should never have had a loan, but they stood to make a quick immediate profit <they did not look long term> and coupled with governmental pressure they got away with it.

And of course the doctoring the books of most of these companies, and well the bubble popped and here we are!

Another attituide is idiots who buy things they can't afford. When I worked in the law office I had so many clients who could not afford their homes, they had terrible credit ratings, had overly high interest, and paying more for the home than it was worth. And in addition the courts were increasing the alimony and child support because of the worth of the house. And they refused to end the madness. End result, they lost everything.

I think it is in part because so many people today at least in California are fiscaly irresponsible and raised with the idea of credit and credit cards are to be used and used often. Then again we are almost indoctrinated to get credit cards and buy buy buy. They do not think about having to pay for it. And that in part is a problem with society. Heck, I purchased my anatomy books last term and the school had three different fliers for credit cards they put in the shopping bag along with my books. There was a huge banner for a credit card with Wells Fargo, and now that bank has a permament booth right next to the administration office with a couple people durring most school hours hawking their credit cards.

The credit companies were overly predatory, and they were targeting people who had no buisness with credit, either they could not pay for it, or they were too imature to understand and handle it, or, they were and are playing the system taking everything they can, then ewalking away declaring bankruptcy. I actualy have several freinds who have done so multiple times. And then they start over again, its as if they do not learn from their mistakes.

ARGH!!!!!! Enough, before I go insane...okay more than I already am

[headquarters]

Luckily or sadly I am a regular income guy that stand to loose nothing and gain alot by the crisis.(as interest rates drop my house will become cheaper to keep I think).

The world has seen rescessions and economical downfall many times before .
It will pick up again , but in the meantime many tragedies on personal and other levels will be played out .

My friends father gave his son a piece of advice for the future when he was moving out at 18 :" Son you need to learn to things to get ahead in the world of tomorrow- the touch method and Chinese"

[Marc]

Good advice, Headquarters. And with the phrase ""Its a huge shit sandwich and we all gotta take a bite" of Jester I feel myself covered in knowledge

Today, at launch time, I've been talking with a friend about the financial crisis. Well, right now it's seems the typical subject to talk about in all Europe. In Spain, the economical situation of US is carefully watch these says, and sometimes I have the impression we're waiting for the arrival of the next wave that will be produced at the other side of the Atlantic.

For the moment the situations seems under control, here. But I and my friend have the opinion that this financial crisis could be one more indication that we well see important changes in the world, in the next few years. The shortage of petroleum, the rise of China, the spread of nuclear weapon capacity, the seeming fragility of an economical system based in the need of constant growing, the eternal problem in the near east ... And of course, here en Europe, we haven't two nations taking cofee in the same way. Some old factors and some new ones could change the power balance in the near future.

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Originally Posted by jester

As the line goes,

"Its a huge shit sandwich and we all gotta take a bite."

As for the politics and finance issue.

Well that is a big problem with international investment, and dare I go there, I dare, the European Union and tying its currency to the Euro.

It is strong generaly, and some of it was at the stake of dragging down one countries and propping up others, but when something bad happens <like now> they domino as is happening.

Remember, with issues of finance, there is always risk. And if you tie your finances to other systems well then you are exposed to the problems of that system.

A big issue here in the US is the home loan system and dare I, yes I dare SCANDAL! Part of it was several years ago the government demanded and investigated mortgage lenders for not lending to low income disadvantaged people. And other less scrupulous lenders manipulated the books lending to people who did not have the ability and should never have had a loan, but they stood to make a quick immediate profit <they did not look long term> and coupled with governmental pressure they got away with it.

And of course the doctoring the books of most of these companies, and well the bubble popped and here we are!

Another attituide is idiots who buy things they can't afford. When I worked in the law office I had so many clients who could not afford their homes, they had terrible credit ratings, had overly high interest, and paying more for the home than it was worth. And in addition the courts were increasing the alimony and child support because of the worth of the house. And they refused to end the madness. End result, they lost everything.

I think it is in part because so many people today at least in California are fiscaly irresponsible and raised with the idea of credit and credit cards are to be used and used often. Then again we are almost indoctrinated to get credit cards and buy buy buy. They do not think about having to pay for it. And that in part is a problem with society. Heck, I purchased my anatomy books last term and the school had three different fliers for credit cards they put in the shopping bag along with my books. There was a huge banner for a credit card with Wells Fargo, and now that bank has a permament booth right next to the administration office with a couple people durring most school hours hawking their credit cards.

The credit companies were overly predatory, and they were targeting people who had no buisness with credit, either they could not pay for it, or they were too imature to understand and handle it, or, they were and are playing the system taking everything they can, then ewalking away declaring bankruptcy. I actualy have several freinds who have done so multiple times. And then they start over again, its as if they do not learn from their mistakes.

ARGH!!!!!! Enough, before I go insane...okay more than I already am

You, there is a lot of fault to go around, really no one is 100% innocent unless you are a kid. I think we have too much of a society that says, buy, buy, buy!" Got to have the latest HDTV and so on. Me, the last new TV we got was a 1982 Zenith in early 1983. We've used it daily for many hours since then. It's kind of interesting I'm watching the same TV at the age of 42 that I watched when I was 16. With HDTV, I have three of those Gov't Issue boxes so I'm ready when analogue TV goes dark. I think in the future, we will have to get used to a standard of living that is a bit lower than we've had and learn to make decisions on what to buy accordingly. I think the huge shot to our power and prosperity is that after World War II, most of the major nations were blown up to one degree or another except for the U.S. and it took them time to rebuild, anywhere from 20 to 50+ years and they are on a perch equal to us more or less. Add into the fact we lost a lot of our manufacturing jobs and you see what we have today.

Chuck M.

Chuck M.

[jester]

[QUOTE=I think the huge shot to our power and prosperity is that after World War II, most of the major nations were blown up to one degree or another except for the U.S. and it took them time to rebuild, anywhere from 20 to 50+ years and they are on a perch equal to us more or less. Add into the fact we lost a lot of our manufacturing jobs and you see what we have today.

Chuck M.

Chuck M.[/QUOTE]

Chuck I thought that once too, but and this is what was explained to me why our steel and auto industry took a backseat to those of Germany and Japan in the 60s.

We chugged along after WWII untouched by the war. I mean really, the only devestation was our Territories like Hawaii and that was localised mostly to Pearl, Hickam and Kaneohe, Guam, Wake and The Philipines.

But think about this. Japan and Germany were devestated, their industry destroyed.

And through recovery efforts like the Marshall Plan many of those countries were rebuilt with brand new equipment and tools of industry. Short term, it was also good for the United States as we were supplying these items. But long term bad, because we were using old technology and machinery etc, and supplied these rebuilt economies with much more modern tools of industry and thus, they were able to out produce us in those specific areas or at least become competition. Just something to think about.

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Originally Posted by Targan

So politics huh? Well, I'm impressed by the fact that when the US banking system makes some mistakes and suffers a crash as a consequence, boy does it take most of the rest of the world with it. Hard core and sad.

One good thing, the price of gas is down. At least I can still run my SUV.

Chuck M., Look on the bright side.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Nowhere Man 1966

One good thing, the price of gas is down. At least I can still run my SUV.

Chuck M., Look on the bright side.

If your SUV had been a diesel you would have been able to run it on vegetable oil. Your car would have simply smell like french fries.

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

If your SUV had been a diesel you would have been able to run it on vegetable oil. Your car would have simply smell like french fries.

True. The thing is that I never heard of any Ford Explorer diesel models, I don't think they ever made one. I know for a while, there were some diesel cars here in the U.S., Volkswagen made them, I remember a diesel Rabbit (I think they are called Golf in Europe) and General Motors made some diesels too, some Chevy's, Oldsmobiles, and even Cadillacs.

Chuck M.

[jester]

Jeep and Ford are working on a diesel model, they have been talking about it for a year, a diesel SUV.

Volkswagen did make several diesel models,

A Jetta, one of their little pickups, the Golf

Audi made a diesel

BMW and Mercedes

Nissan Sentra had a couple models

Even a little Mitsubishi pickup had a diesel model

Those are the ones off the top of my head.

And now with the alternative energy comming up, they are working on several diesel passenger cars, light trucks and SUVs, then again they may just be doing it for public relations.

However, in California, they made it illegal to sell new diesel cars here, although you can bring in used ones. Go figure. What a joke, yes they belch out smoke, but that is just look, diesel engines burn almost 90% of the fuel, whereas gas engines burn about 1/3 of the fuel, so which one polutes more? One you just don't see it which in my view makes it worse.