OT Attack in Paris 60 dead

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Last count I heard is 158 dead and still climbing.
I wonder if this will finally convince Europeans that open borders, while nice in a perfect world where everyone gets on with each other, is actually a BAD THING.

Of course I can not speak for all of the refugees, but ISIS is one of the reasons these people are running.

My $0.02

Mike

[aspqrz]

Originally Posted by mikeo80

Of course I can not speak for all of the refugees, but ISIS is one of the reasons these people are running.

My $0.02

Mike

Consider this. Several years (i.e. less than five) ago a whine by one of our local far lefty idiot types about the fact that she and her Palestinian companion(s) took five-eight hours to get through security at Tel Aviv Airport when leaving the country was published in (IIRC) the Sydney Morning Herald (the Aussie equivalent of The Times or The New York Times) … she complained that it was racist and anti-muslim.

The SMH sought comment from an Israeli Security expert who made this point – 100% of terrorist attacks in Israel or directed at Israeli interests are carried out by Palestinians or Muslims (or a tiny cohort of crazy deluded westerners who are known to blindly support Palestinian terrorists). Stringent security measures aimed specifically at Palestinians and known pro-Palestinian activists is, therefore, a sensible precaution … and, as a result, there have been no terrorist attacks in Israeli airports since the measures were instituted.

'But, but, but!' the whiny idiot lefty complained, 'It's racial profiling!'

'Yes, but it's effective racial profiling' was the response.

Now, being of a generally left political perspective myself (socialist, not communist … something like Eurosocialist, but not the nonexistent Tranzi nonsense spouted by some people), but also being a long time supporter of Israel and of common sense, I could only shake my head at the outright lunacy of said lefty whiner.

So, consider this – close to 100% of recent terrorist attacks have been carried out by Muslims, often of Arab or other Middle Eastern or North African origin. While one can reasonably assume, based on the evidence, that they do not have widespread active support amongst the Muslim community, though they may have somewhat wider sympathy from same (way less than 1%, I'd guess, for the former, at least in the Western muslim diaspora) – but the fact remains that close to 100% of recent terrorists were muslims.

So, is it racism or racial profiling to direct the vast, overwhelming, majority of your security resources at muslims in general, and at muslim sympathisers amongst the more idiotic non-muslim elements of your society? Or is it common sense?

Likewise, is it racist to exclude muslims fleeing from undoubtedly repressive and violent regimes in the Middle East from non-muslim countries in the west that are many hundred, or even thousands, of klicks from their homelands, after having passed through (or bypassed) safe muslim countries on the basis that muslims are the source of close to 100% of recent terrorists?

Yes, racists will use this as an excuse to demonise many innocent muslims.

That, however, doesn't change the reality that it makes sense to target the root source of the problem – and, since it is seemingly impossible (and certainly is impossible with finite resources) to determine whether a muslim refugee is an actual terrorist plant or will, at some future time, become radicalised and commit terrorist acts, then doesn't it make sense to exclude all muslim would be refugees from non-muslim majority countries?

Isn't that common sense? Unpalatable, indeed, but common sense nonetheless.

Phil McGregor

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Originally Posted by aspqrz

Consider this. Several years (i.e. less than five) ago a whine by one of our local far lefty idiot types about the fact that she and her Palestinian companion(s) took five-eight hours to get through security at Tel Aviv Airport when leaving the country was published in (IIRC) the Sydney Morning Herald (the Aussie equivalent of The Times or The New York Times) … she complained that it was racist and anti-muslim.

The SMH sought comment from an Israeli Security expert who made this point – 100% of terrorist attacks in Israel or directed at Israeli interests are carried out by Palestinians or Muslims (or a tiny cohort of crazy deluded westerners who are known to blindly support Palestinian terrorists). Stringent security measures aimed specifically at Palestinians and known pro-Palestinian activists is, therefore, a sensible precaution … and, as a result, there have been no terrorist attacks in Israeli airports since the measures were instituted.

'But, but, but!' the whiny idiot lefty complained, 'It's racial profiling!'

'Yes, but it's effective racial profiling' was the response.

Now, being of a generally left political perspective myself (socialist, not communist … something like Eurosocialist, but not the nonexistent Tranzi nonsense spouted by some people), but also being a long time supporter of Israel and of common sense, I could only shake my head at the outright lunacy of said lefty whiner.

So, consider this – close to 100% of recent terrorist attacks have been carried out by Muslims, often of Arab or other Middle Eastern or North African origin. While one can reasonably assume, based on the evidence, that they do not have widespread active support amongst the Muslim community, though they may have somewhat wider sympathy from same (way less than 1%, I'd guess, for the former, at least in the Western muslim diaspora) – but the fact remains that close to 100% of recent terrorists were muslims.

So, is it racism or racial profiling to direct the vast, overwhelming, majority of your security resources at muslims in general, and at muslim sympathisers amongst the more idiotic non-muslim elements of your society? Or is it common sense?

Likewise, is it racist to exclude muslims fleeing from undoubtedly repressive and violent regimes in the Middle East from non-muslim countries in the west that are many hundred, or even thousands, of klicks from their homelands, after having passed through (or bypassed) safe muslim countries on the basis that muslims are the source of close to 100% of recent terrorists?

Yes, racists will use this as an excuse to demonise many innocent muslims.

That, however, doesn't change the reality that it makes sense to target the root source of the problem – and, since it is seemingly impossible (and certainly is impossible with finite resources) to determine whether a muslim refugee is an actual terrorist plant or will, at some future time, become radicalised and commit terrorist acts, then doesn't it make sense to exclude all muslim would be refugees from non-muslim majority countries?

Isn't that common sense? Unpalatable, indeed, but common sense nonetheless.

Phil McGregor

Agreed. I tend to be center-right if you add me up. Well, on some things I've very right on, I'm "Mr. NRA" are for example but I would be more of a representation of the libertarian wing of our Tea party over here. Heck, on one forum, after posting for 17 years, I'm been kicked off for being "too liberal" but the guy who runs it now claims to be on a "mission from God." (When people say things like that, I find that scary) To quote Michael Savage, the talkshow host, I'm for "Borders, Language and Culture" and you made a good case out of protecting your nation and people and the methods that need to be done. I'm for profiling if it is for our protection, I don't care if it is on the lookout for Moslems or if the majority of perps were Amish (for sake of argument, I'd be for the same thing.

Sure, I think there will be some things we disagree on, but at least there are liberals who have good principles and not kow-tow to the ogic where it goes too far into national or Western Civ suicide.

[unkated]

Originally Posted by aspqrz

Consider this. Several years (i.e. less than five) ago a whine by one of our local far lefty idiot types about the fact that she and her Palestinian companion(s) took five-eight hours to get through security at Tel Aviv Airport when leaving the country was published in (IIRC) the Sydney Morning Herald (the Aussie equivalent of The Times or The New York Times) … she complained that it was racist and anti-muslim.

The SMH sought comment from an Israeli Security expert who made this point – 100% of terrorist attacks in Israel or directed at Israeli interests are carried out by Palestinians or Muslims (or a tiny cohort of crazy deluded westerners who are known to blindly support Palestinian terrorists). Stringent security measures aimed specifically at Palestinians and known pro-Palestinian activists is, therefore, a sensible precaution … and, as a result, there have been no terrorist attacks in Israeli airports since the measures were instituted.

'But, but, but!' the whiny idiot lefty complained, 'It's racial profiling!'

'Yes, but it's effective racial profiling' was the response.

Now, being of a generally left political perspective myself (socialist, not communist … something like Eurosocialist, but not the nonexistent Tranzi nonsense spouted by some people), but also being a long time supporter of Israel and of common sense, I could only shake my head at the outright lunacy of said lefty whiner.

So, consider this – close to 100% of recent terrorist attacks have been carried out by Muslims, often of Arab or other Middle Eastern or North African origin.
While one can reasonably assume, based on the evidence, that they do not have widespread active support amongst the Muslim community, though they may have somewhat wider sympathy from same (way less than 1%, I'd guess, for the former, at least in the Western muslim diaspora) – but the fact remains that close to 100% of recent terrorists were muslims.

While I have no disagreement with what was said above, this statement I cannot accept:

• Timothy McVeigh, and his assistants, who blew up the Morruh Federal Building in Oklahoma City were nice white christian terrorists, born and raised in the United States.
  
• The Unabomber, Ted Kaczynski, was a nice white christian terrorist, born and raised in the United States.
  
• Eric Rudolph, the Olympic Park bomber was a nice nice white christian terrorist, born and raised in the United States.
  
• Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, the surviving Boston Marathon bomber is Muslim, but is a naturalized US citizen, having lived in the US since he was 9. He certainly does not look particularly arab.
  
• Dylan Roof, a nice nice white christian terrorist, born and raised in the United States, killed 9 people in a Charleston, SC church this past June (2015) hoping to start a race war by his own admission.

This list does not include the nice christian white people in the US who seem to have gone off their rocker, taken guns and opened up in classrooms (college to grade school), movie theatres or elsewhere for some mental illness.

So, shall we put a watch on all those nice white christian folk, too?

So, yes, it is racist blindness (IMHO) to concentrate your security efforts on one set of potential targets while ignoring others with no better track record.


Uncle Ted

[Olefin]

Ted Kaczynski was an atheist not a Christian

Eric Rudolph is a member of a cult sect of the Mormons, not a Christian

As for McVeigh - In a 1996 interview, McVeigh professed belief in "a God", although he said he had "sort of lost touch with" Catholicism and "I never really picked it up, however I do maintain core beliefs." In McVeigh's biography American Terrorist, released in 2002, he stated that he did not believe in a hell and that science is his religion. In June 2001, a day before the execution, McVeigh wrote a letter to the Buffalo News identifying himself as agnostic

so lets give it a rest shall we

[unkated]

No, I cannot "let it rest."

When untruths are presented as facts, and used as a justification for mistreatment or repression, I don't let it rest.

Oh, and don't tell Moromons they are aren't christians unless you want to hear a long lecture.

Uncle Ted

[LT. Ox]

Originally Posted by unkated

No, I cannot "let it rest."

When untruths are presented as facts, and used as a justification for mistreatment or repression, I don't let it rest.

Oh, and don't tell Moromons they are aren't christians unless you want to hear a long lecture.

Uncle Ted

As was pointed out by Olefin YOUR naming on YOUR list of several persons that acted in what were acts of terror as "nice white Christians" is somewhat in error or downright untruth.
Which?
The job of finding and deterring criminal behavior is tuff, not using available information about who is doing what makes it a lot tougher, further giving those that are being closely scrutinized a defense is adding to the smoke screen.
IMHO

[aspqrz]

Originally Posted by LT. Ox

The job of finding and deterring criminal behavior is tuff, not using available information about who is doing what makes it a lot tougher, further giving those that are being closely scrutinized a defense is adding to the smoke screen.
IMHO

Exactly.

Phil

[RN7]

Originally Posted by unkated

While I have no disagreement with what was said above, this statement I cannot accept:

• Timothy McVeigh, and his assistants, who blew up the Morruh Federal Building in Oklahoma City were nice white christian terrorists, born and raised in the United States.
  
• The Unabomber, Ted Kaczynski, was a nice white christian terrorist, born and raised in the United States.
  
• Eric Rudolph, the Olympic Park bomber was a nice nice white christian terrorist, born and raised in the United States.
  
• Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, the surviving Boston Marathon bomber is Muslim, but is a naturalized US citizen, having lived in the US since he was 9. He certainly does not look particularly arab.
  
• Dylan Roof, a nice nice white christian terrorist, born and raised in the United States, killed 9 people in a Charleston, SC church this past June (2015) hoping to start a race war by his own admission.

This list does not include the nice christian white people in the US who seem to have gone off their rocker, taken guns and opened up in classrooms (college to grade school), movie theatres or elsewhere for some mental illness.

So, shall we put a watch on all those nice white christian folk, too?

So, yes, it is racist blindness (IMHO) to concentrate your security efforts on one set of potential targets while ignoring others with no better track record.


Uncle Ted

This is a very valid point, although as Olefin has pointed out many of these people weren't really Christian. However these individuals in America acted alone or did to a large extent, whereas the Islamic ISIS supporters (and Al Qaeda) were part of an organised multi-national extremist network with funding and support. Most of them were also indoctrinated/brainwashed into this type of rapid anti-everything not Islamic thinking by so called religious people, and they have legions of potential supporters in the Islamic world and among people of certain ethnic backgrounds in the Western world.

[aspqrz]

Originally Posted by unkated

While I have no disagreement with what was said above, this statement I cannot accept:

• Timothy McVeigh, and his assistants, who blew up the Morruh Federal Building in Oklahoma City were nice white christian terrorists, born and raised in the United States.
  
• The Unabomber, Ted Kaczynski, was a nice white christian terrorist, born and raised in the United States.
  
• Eric Rudolph, the Olympic Park bomber was a nice nice white christian terrorist, born and raised in the United States.
  
• Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, the surviving Boston Marathon bomber is Muslim, but is a naturalized US citizen, having lived in the US since he was 9. He certainly does not look particularly arab.
  
• Dylan Roof, a nice nice white christian terrorist, born and raised in the United States, killed 9 people in a Charleston, SC church this past June (2015) hoping to start a race war by his own admission.

This list does not include the nice christian white people in the US who seem to have gone off their rocker, taken guns and opened up in classrooms (college to grade school), movie theatres or elsewhere for some mental illness.

So, shall we put a watch on all those nice white christian folk, too?

So, yes, it is racist blindness (IMHO) to concentrate your security efforts on one set of potential targets while ignoring others with no better track record.

Uncle Ted

Hmmm.

You did note the bit about 'recent' - and the specificity of 'terrorist attacks'

McVeigh and Kaczynski are hardly recent, even if one bends the definition beyond breaking point.

As for the loons going on shooting rampages in the US, well, they are serial or spree killers and not terrorists. Yes, even Roof.

Which leaves the Tsarnaevs, who are both muslim and terrorists ... and should, therefore, have been profiled.

YMMV

Phil

[stormlion1]

Issue is that among the refugee's are members of ISIS looking to expand there war into Europe. The hard fact is, Europe and the US cannot afford to allow them entry if this could happen. And I think France will close its borders soon to refugee's and pressure its neighbors to do the same.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by mikeo80

Of course I can not speak for all of the refugees, but ISIS is one of the reasons these people are running.

My $0.02

Mike

But don't forget, ISIS is some of those coming in with the refugees.